This week’s slow motion footage is a Remington Model 8, in .300 Savage (when the .300 was offered in the Model 81, Remington offered a service rebarreling existing Model 8 rifles for the spiffy new cartridge). This is, of course, John Browning’s classic long-recoil sporting rifle.
For more material on the Model 8, I suggest these previous posts:
Overall shooting and disassembly of a .25 caliber Remington Model 8
Shooting a 2-Gun Match with a Model 8
Testing penetration through steel with a .35 caliber Remington 8
Remington Model 8 extended magazines
Thanks for the video. A local gun shop had a Model 81 for sale that I was seriously considering. Unfortunately I dithered too long.
I occurs to me that this long recoil design is somewhat similar to the infamous French Chauchat lmg, (unfairly tarnished imho by poor quality control and that stupid open sided mag). I think the Model 8 predates the Chauchat. Is it possible the French were inspired by it?
“Chauchat. Is it possible the French were inspired by it”
Article in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat
states that: “The design of the Chauchat dates back to 1903, and its long recoil operation is based on the John Browning-designed Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle of 1906, not (as so often repeated in the past) on the later designs (1910) of Rudolf Frommer, the Hungarian inventor of the commercial Frommer Stop pistol.”
And also that it was designed to be: “very light, portable automatic weapon served by one man only” (concept similar to American BAR 1918).
Despite all it is flaws, it must be noted that Chauchat was first mass-produced light machine gun.
“tarnished imho by poor quality control and that stupid open sided mag”
I would say that peculiar design of cartridge (very tapered) also led to low reliability.
I think the French were the first to go smokeless–it is a stretch to take one of the very first smokeless rounds, intended for a bolt action rifle with a tubular magazine, and then expect it to work in a box magazine fed light machine gun 30 years later. A case of, there are much better cartridges now, but who wants to rechamber all those infantry rifles?
And logistical hassles is why the French didn’t switch. Besides, doing that in the middle of a war with Germans just kilometers from Paris was tantamount to suicide!
French Army was aware that 8x50R Lebel cartridge was outdated. In 1900s alongside with Meunier rifle new cartridge was developed – 7×57 Meunier (not to be confused with 7×57 Spanish Mauser)
http://municion.org/7mm/7x57Meunier.htm
But as the First World War broke out, infantry cartridge swap was not feasible. Anyway Meunier was fielded during WW1 by French Army in small numbers.
The French were the first out the gate with a small bore smokeless cartridge, but my understanding is that they took the 11mm Gras blackpowder cartridge and necked it down, giving them the odd shape and the rim. At the time it no doubt seemed like an expedient way to field a new cartridge, but it caused decades of problems down the line. It was only a couple years later the Swiss brought out the 7.5×55 and Mauser produced the 7.65×53, essentially the prototypes for modern cartridges. A classic case of military bureaucracy short-sightedness.
“rim”
I don’t blame 8x50R Lebel for its rim, but peculiar case shape.
“7.5×55 and Mauser produced the 7.65×53”
These cartridge are in new era of cartridge – rimless, but even when you compare 8x50R Lebel to cartridges its looks peculiar, for example see following cartridges:
8x58R Danish (also called 8x58R Krag) for Danish Remington Rolling Block
8x52R Mannlicher for Mannlicher M1888 rifle
“Despite all it is flaws, it must be noted that Chauchat was first mass-produced light machine gun”.
It was a close second, as it was preceded by the Madsen, although some would disagree on the mass-produced label as applied to the Danish gun.
Way cool. I’ve got an 81 and it kicks like a mule. Now I know why.
Very cool! I didn’t know Remington converted Model 8s to .300 Savage – I have a .35 and I love it, but getting ammo is turning into a real pain!
“I have a .35”
What is availability of .35 Remington cartridge in comparison to .25 Remington Autoloading, .30 Remington Autoloading and .32 Remington Autoloading?
The .35 is the only one of them still offered in new rifle (Marlin lever-actions, IIRC). It’s tricky to find the .35 Rem ammo sometimes, but it’s still significantly more available than any of the others.
Boy that looks like violent recoil! Look at how the firing hand is tossed back on the grip!
Any chance of a comparison test with the Model 8’s gas operated successor the 740 or 742? .308 Winchester is very close to .300 Savage and it would be an interesting contrast between pre WwI and post WWII design practices.
I have a Model 8 in .35 Remington. I do not find the recoil objectionable or noticeably different from recoil of the same cartridge fired in the Marlin 336T or even the TC Contender as a carbine. My gun will not feed SP bulleted ammunition reliably (such as the 150 gr. factory load) but is aces with the 200 gr. RN from any maker. I am the 4th person in the family to own and hunt with this gun since it was purchased new by a great-grand uncle.