The Gewehr 1898 was the product of a decade of bolt action repeating rifle improvements by the Mauser company, and would be the standard German infantry rifle through both World Wars. Today we are looking at a pre-WWI example (1905 production) that shows all the features of what a German soldier would have taken to war in 1914.
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Book Review: German Gew. 88 “Commission” Rifle
I recently picked up a very nice looking Gewehr 88 from an online classified ad, and when it arrived I really didn’t know what I had (I’m not an expert on older German bolt actions […]
Vintage photo
Vintage Saturday – German Maxims on the Line
Bergmann
Magnificent Engraved Bergmann Pistols
Today we are taking a brief side trip in Bergmann development to look at a couple of magnificent engraved Bergmann pistols – specifically, a pair of model 1896 No.3s, a Bergmann Mars 1903, and a […]
Ian- Same problem as yesterday. The ad portion of the video will play, but the part of it about the Gewehr 1898 will not. Just like the problem with the Pond revolver.
I never had a problem with your videos before.
I will bring this up with the Full30 guys and see if we can get it sorted out. What web browser are you using? Also, can you tell me if the video plays properly on Full30’s homepage (https://www.full30.com/video/0ab9c90f6c80a90d8c301ad13973ed30)?
Firefox 47 on Android does not work quite correctly on full30.com. The videos don’t play when I tap on the middle preview image and they also don’t show the play symbol in the middle of the preview image as they used to. They start to play when I tap on the lower left corner of the image where the Pause/Play icon is during play, but the icon isn’t visible in the preview image. I noticed this workaround by accident. Once play start, everything works normally.
On Forgottenweapons.com the embedded videos don’t play at all, not even the ads
Yes, I know that most people do not use FF on Android, but it’s actually faster than Chrome, and I like the URL bar functionality much better than that of Chrome.
Minor correction: the ads on this site seem to play sometimes, but not always… Still no luck with the actual videos, though.
If you don’t like Chrome, you can use Opera as second browser : it uses the same engine, so videos are watchable.
Ian, the video seems to work on the full 30 website, but not on forgotten weapons website. The commercial plays, but then nothing. I am using Firefox for a browser, and the videos always worked until yesterday with the Pond revolver and today with the G98. I know I have changed nothing on my end. Hope that helps with fixing the problem. Other than that, great job as always!!
Same issue and fix for me.
(Whoops: on firefox 46.0.1 EME-free)
Same thing I get.
For what it’s worth the video payed fine for me, using Safari Version 9.1.1 (11601.6.17) on Mac OS X 10.11.5 (15F34)
If you have an ad blocker, disable it if only for this page and the video will work.
I take that back, only the pre-roll ad works, the content still hangs. Full30 has issues making their videos work properly.
Note that a few South American countries had these with the Lange sight. Peruvian 1909 model comes to mind.
The videos play for me, at both ForgottenWeapons and Full30. I’m using Chrome.
Aha, an original G.98. It’s extremely difficult to find one which has not been chopped down and remade as a Kar.98k. According to a friend of mine, the M98 action is one of the most popular for big game hunting rifles (can’t get much stronger unless you go for expensive overkill). The only problem with this rifle apart from the sights not being able to zero in the guys trying to kill me with submachine guns would be the “butcher knife” bayonet held to the muzzle only by a single lug (emphasis on stabbing, not slashing)… Or am I wrong?
“According to a friend of mine, the M98 action is one of the most popular for big game hunting rifles (can’t get much stronger unless you go for expensive overkill).”
It sounds true considering how many various cartridge were designed in mind with Gewehr 98 action. The simplest way of creating was necking-down/up basic case, cartridge created this way are generally named somethingx57, here:
http://www.deutsches-jagd-lexikon.de/index.php?title=10,75×57
you can see some cartridge crafted that way – from 6,5mm to 10,75mm caliber.
Of course new cartridge created from scratch or other cases exist, in rough time order:
9,3×62 – 1905 – created as rimless ballistic-equivalent of 9,3x74R cartridge.
10,75×68 Mauser – ~1910 – big game cartridge, 350gr bullet @ 670m/s.
7×64 – 1917 – general-purpose hunting cartridge
.500 Jeffery – ~1920 – big game cartridge (I’m not sure there – it was or was NOT created for Gewehr 98?)
9,3×64 Brenneke – 1927 – big game cartridge.
9,3×70 DWM – 1928 – can be fitted into Gewehr 98, although barely. 19,50g bullet @ 850m/s. Parent case: .404 Jeffery.
6,5×68 and 8×68 S – 1939 – relatively high-speed (considering time of introduction)
7×66 SE vom Hofe – 1950 – 6,75g bullet @ 1130 m/s. Parent case: .404 Jeffery.
This list might be incomplete, please add info if you have.
8×57 JS is used in Sweden for hunting big game such as moose.
According to Norma who are one of the makers of ammunition in this calibre this cartridge is comparable with the 30-06 round.
“Sweden”
Does anyone there used 9,3×57 cartridge? I know that in past it was, but don’t have any information about present day.
It sounds familiar I do believe I know someone who owns one.
Again I turn to Norma´s web site for information and found this (translated by me):
http://www.norma.cc/sv/Produkter/Jakt/93×57/
“It is not known when this cartridge was constructed and no one knows who the designer was.
However we do know that it is a German cartridge developed in the late 18-hundreds.
It is nothing other than a 8×57 expanded to take the larger 9,3 mm bullet.
Since there is only a 0,2mm difference between this cartridge and the 9×57 Mauser, the performance and field of use are the same.
Performance and construction is also quite similar to the 9,5×57 Mannlicher but significantly more powerful than the straight 9,3x57R.
Many similar cartridges turned up around the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century but 9,3×57 is the only one that is still being commonly used today.
It is mostly commonly being used for hunting moose in Sweden but it is used in all of Scandinavia.
The most common weapon type is an old Husqvarna and there is no production of new guns in this calibre.
The 9,3×57 guns are nick named the potato thrower since it uses a slow and heavy bullet.
This can lead people to think that the bullet looses height rapidly but when compared with its bigger brother the 9,3×62 there is not that much of a difference.
Considering its popularity among people that does not have a straight trajectory as a priority we believe it will remain in production for many years to come.
Since there is no standard for the pressure used in this calibre and considering the fact that there are many old rifles still in use we have limited the pressure to 3000 bar (43500 psi) as a maximum load.”
So it looks like this calibre is going away.
The 8×57 JS might have a brighter future since you can still buy new guns in this calibre although I believe not very many are sold.
“than the straight 9,3x57R”
This probably refers to this cartridge:
http://www.deutsches-jagd-lexikon.de/index.php?title=9,3x57_R_360
Caliber 9,3mm has long history in Germany.
“when this cartridge was constructed and no one knows who the designer was”
According to my knowledge it was made around 1910 by Mauser.
“Considering its popularity among people that does not have a straight trajectory as a priority we believe it will remain in production for many years to come.”
There were other cartridge made by necking up, which exchange muzzle velocity for heavier bullet:
9,3x54R which is Soviet cartridge made by necking up 7,62 Mosin cartridge
.35 Whelen spawned by .30-06
Addition: 9,3×53 Swiss M25 spawned by 7.5×55 Swiss:
http://www.municion.org/9_3/9_3x53Swiss.htm
Mauser made a magnum version of the 98 action for big game hunting, and the 12.7×70 Schuler was designed for that action (known as 500 Jeffery in the UK, Schuler and Jeffery developed it together)
Hi I am using Mozilla Firefox 47.0.
The video does not play for me on Forgotten Weapons . com
It does play on full 30
Regards
I have Firefox, but I don’t know what version. I am not really computer literate, and I don’t know what “full 30” means.
If you want to know what version you are using you can click on the three bars in the top right corner, then click on the tiny question mark at the bottom of the menu and choose “about Firefox”.
Full30.com seems to be a web site where videos are posted, such as this video.
https://www.full30.com/video/0ab9c90f6c80a90d8c301ad13973ed30
Regards =)
Thanks. I have 47.0, and Windows 10. Whatever happened started with the Pond video. I never had trouble before.
I am able to watch the videos on full 30, without problems. Through Facebook, something will have to be fixed.
The videos have worked fine for me, windows 7/internet explorer.
Funny to say but WW1 and WW2 Mauser bolt housings identical in same thread,most had large ring barrels so I have WW1 Mauser 98 Gewehr barrel that’s screws into WW2 Mauser 98K bolt housing….
Mauser 98 systems made standartly until end of WW2,ballisticly speaking Mauser 98 system have no comparatives in world,it is most accurate 8mm bolt action rifle made…
I had fired at least 3 different 98 models,they are really nice made and never fail in action…
Another one I fired AC43 G43 Gewehr,firster series of G43’s had threaded area at barrel which allow you to attach silencers,muzzle breaks,flash hiders,blank firing devices,etc…..
This is why they most valuable,other G43 series had dual bolt guide areas at main housing whilch later prrooved it really do nothing and it was removed,another interesting feature bolt cover housing which standartly was sheet metal construction while others had fully milled and consider expansive top cover…..
It is basicly impossible to find G43 with longer size barrel,few had about 700 mm (about 29 inches)barrel length but those particular models reside in museums and private collections,this is basicly same size barrel that on 98 Gewehr..
Acording German ordnance the longer barrel length didn’t brought any longer range positive results so they end up on standart size barrel which is 550 mm..
I had fired my G43 few times and kind of nice rifle for long range shooting,I would consider ZF4 scope is not the best for long range,it needs adaptation of different scope and modifying to standart scope mount for G43,maximum range of G43 is 1200 meters,maximum range of SKS is 1000 meters…..
Becouse consider carabine or karabiner SKS and G43 is exactly what it is because of short sized barrels and short stock version,there used to be first production or prototypes of SKS which had longer sized barrels but again particular models remains in museums and private collectors…..
The only German rifle I didn’t had chance to shoot is FG42,this is most expansive firearm and not that many peoples who can afford to buy particular rifle..
I have Firefox and it ran just fine. My Mauser is a W W II K98K bcd 1940/41 I got back in the 1990’s. As an historical item it is priceless to me.
I use Chrome via an iMac to see your videos on ForgottenWeapons (not Full30) and ads and videos work fine. Great video as usual.
Having Firefox 47 on a Windows 7 and a Windows 8.1 I also encountered the problem of the commercial running, but not the real video. I tried the full30.com website with Windows 8.1 and it worked OK.
Now to Gewehr 98:
1903 is a correct date for the S bullet, because Kaiser Wilhelm signed the order of its adoption on March 24th of that year. October 1st 1905 was the target date for completing the changeover.
If I understood you correctly, you say bore dimensions were changed when going from round nose 88 bullet to spitzer S bullet. This is not the case.
Gewehr 88 from the beginning had a 7.9 bore diameter and a 8.2 mm groove diameter, which is exactly the same as Gewehr 98 and German army weapons up to 1945, and which still today is the SAAMI “8 mm Mauser” or in Europe 8x57IS. (OK, Gewehr 88 originally had a little shallower grooves, but this was already changed in 1896, nearly 10 years before the S bullet.)
You are correct that S bullet had a larger diameter (8.22 mm versus 8.1 mm for the round nose). But the only thing that was changed when adapting the rifles in inventory (Gewehr 88 as well as Gewehr 98) was reaming out the chamber neck area for a new cartridge with a larger bullet diameter. The bore/groove diameter remained untouched!!!
By the way, in 1905 one half ot the German army was still equipped with the older Gewehr 88. So it was very important to change all Gewehr 88 to use the new cartridge. This would not have been possible if bore dimensions had been changed.
The usual folklore that 8x57I was the old Patrone 88 and 8x57IS was the improved new one new with an S bullet is in error. It was the German civilian(!) gun trade who continued to use the old 88 case and its 8.1 mm bullet diameter and made tighter barrels (7.8 mm bore, 8.07 mm groove) for it. But these tighter 8x57I dimensions were never ever used in any issued German military weapon.
By the way, Germany only followed what France had done: balle D of 1898 had 8.3 mm diameter, exactly the same as the Lebel rifel groove diameter was from the start. Previous M1886 balle M had had 8.1 mm diameter.
The Russians also followed this approach when going from round nose to spitzer in 1908. This is why Soviet/Russian “7.62 mm” even today are actually 0.1 mm larger in diameter than western 7.62 mm bullets. The original round nose of 1890 was like our western 7.62 mm.
Okay, I’ve got a ridiculous idea, please try not to flak me.
Setting: somewhere in the middle of the dry grass lands, a convoy of supply trucks and armored vehicles en-route to a village in need of food, water, protection from recent bandit attacks, and medical assistance to eradicate some sort of plague. Given that we have old European surplus at our disposal (we’re security contractors, not UN peace keepers), which would you get just to keep our cargo trucks’ goodies from being sold on the black market? And why do I get the feeling that there are monster crows and dragons flying around? Maybe it’s just my imagination (and I hope I’m just hallucinating).
Small arms:
1. Gewehr 98 (chambered for 9.3×64 Brenneke) or Kar.98k (can be fitted with scope and a suppressor)
2. Gewehr 43 or ZH-29
3. FN Model 1949 (modified for detachable magazines and select-fire capability, but a bit expensive)
4. Browning Wz.1928, Hotchkiss Model 1922 (strip-fed), or Zb vz.30
5. MG-08/15, MG-34, or MG-42
6. MP-40, KP-44 (with Suomi drum), or ZK-383
7. StG-44 with scope
8. Cannone-Mitragliera da 20/77 (Scotti)
Support Artillery:
1. Canon de 25 mm SA mle 1934
2. Canon d’Infanterie de 37 modèle 1916 TRP
3. 7.5 cm leichtes Infanteriegeschütz 18
4. Granatwerfer 42
Vehicles:
1. SdKfz.6/3
2. BMW Dixi with improvised armor and MG-13
3. Strv m/37
4. Humber Light Reconnaissance Car
Last option: Screw the budget and add your favorite toys to the lists!
This activity is completely voluntary. You are not required to participate. Please keep any and all criticism of this post humane and free of foul language.
Thank you,
Cherndog
Haha well it feels quite off topic but I would say:
Why not get the MG 42 if you can for a small arm?
If we are running a convoy and can mount the gun on a vehicle a machine gun ought to be a better option than any rifle or SMG.
From what I heard the MG 42 is almost as good as any new Machine gun and I think that its reputation, looks and high rate of fire would help to intimidate any enemy.
When it comes to artillery I do not see how it can be used in a convoy because as I see it the goal must be to keep the convoy always in motion and that gives no time to stop and deploy any artillery so if I have to make a choice I would go with the Canon d’Infanterie de 37 modèle 1916 TRP because it seems to be the only one that is small enough to be mounted on one of the vehicles possibly.
When it comes to the vehicles I would definitely look for a good combination of speed and armour as my strategy would be to keep the convoy moving at all times to get out of harms way.
The SdKfz.6/3 seems to have no protection for the driver and it looks really slow.
Anything with just improvised armour is of course not an option for reasons of safety issues.
The Humber Light Reconnaissance Car is tempting because of its looks and superior speed but I think I would choose the Strv m/37 because it seems to have the best protection for the crew and despite being almost a real tank it might be fast enough for my needs.
I am also happy with getting a Volvo engine.
If I could choose any vehicle to ride in a hostile area I would consider the Merkava tank because I believe it protects its crew well but in the end my choice would most likely be to ride in a Abrahams tank.
I would feel quite safe then.
Great choices, but if we’re short on spare barrels, the MG-42 will have to take time to cool off. In the meantime, I’d issue the FN Model 1949 to marksmen and have the guys with LMG’s cover the MG-42’s crew while they get the thing back up and running.
If one of our trucks blows a tire, we’ll have a problem with mobility and will likely need to set up the artillery and the MG-08/15 as a precaution (changing tires takes a minimum of 10 minutes and we’re forbidden from abandoning vehicles unless the running gear is totally trashed). If the bandits attack at that time, what would you do then?
For security vehicle I would take the SdKfz.6/3 as its Soviet 76.2mm gun would negate the need for any other artillery, though I would just love to supplement it with the SdKfz.6/2 with the 3.7 cm flak guns for lighter vehicle targets. For Machine gun I would take the MG-42 which was so good that both the US cloned it in our M-60 and Yugoslavia used it as the M53 ( I believe.)For personal small arms, I would chose the StG-44 for everyone except specialist snipers, who would get the scopes from the StG-44s since the lack of range of the 7.92×33 round does not have sufficient range for sniping nor for grenade launching. (Thank God that the Nazis didn’t make the StG-44 using a cartridge like the 7.92x46mm experimental round of the ’30s. Had they replaced their M-98 rifles with a StG-44 using that round at the onset of the War, our boys would have had a much harder time and the Eastern Front might have collapsed, ending the Soviet Union then and there)
“the Eastern Front might have collapsed, ending the Soviet Union then and there”
Dubious. Red Army relies mainly on artillery for waging outcome of battles.
The MG 42 was indeed cloned by many nations and continues in service today , mostly in 7.62 NATO as the MG 3. The M 60 is not such a clone, however. It is a lightweight Frankenstein using a Lewis gun inspired action with a feed mechanism from the MG 42 and a clunky barrel change assembly . All that said, in good repair its a good gun. Wear it a bit and send it back to depot for another. In this case I would see about using MG belts in that Hotchkiss . So, SdFz 6/3 for artillery . Mount belt fed Hotchkiss guns on all the vehicles. Vz 30 as dismount LMG scoped K98 with suppressor as designated marksman weapons and STG44 for everyone else.
Or: screw the budget! M1A1 PIP with a trailor of ammo and fuel bladder. Since it’s a 105 we can get a useful mix of main gun ammo to include HEP, HEDP, Cannister and Sabot for your Dragons. Add an M113 with the 20mm Vulcan AA rig. That will ruin anyone’s day. M113 ACAV for everyon else. Band tracks all around. Light aerial drones to let us see them first. An EFOGM vehicle for non line of sight fire support. An MG of whatever flavor in every truck( doesn’t matter much). Small arms to choice ( doesn’t matter too much once you go Mech).
“Last option: Screw the budget and add your favorite toys to the lists!”
SdKfz 234 in turret version – 234/1 (2cm main gun) or 234/2 (5cm main gun) with 8×8 drive giving good off-road capability and good maximal speed 80km/h.
“Strv m/37”
I’m against tracked vehicle, they generally (assuming similar size) have smaller operational range, bigger fuel consumption and are slower. They have better terrain crossing but in this case this seems to be not so very needed.
But if wanting more firepower on fast platform then answer is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard_EBR
Hi Ian, I’ve read one of the problems with the old Lange sight is the large surface area of contact between the barrel and the adjusting button assembly. This meant that when the rifle was really hot changing the sight setting resulted in burnt fingers. There is far less of a good ‘thermal’ contact in the case of the later flat tangent sight they used on the postwar modified versions and the K98.
Flash suppressor,silencer,muzzle brake,etc. only could be fitted on threaded end of barrel….
Othervise it should have some type of cut so something could be catch that particular area and lock…
For instances rifle grenade launcher was overheld front sight base of mostly 98 Gewehr or 98K than it would close like book from both sides and clamped by adjusting bolt..
Funny to say but one guy tried to sell me one and I refused it,I don’t have any purpose for such device and rifle grenades scarce to find…
The STG44 and MP40 that I have on reconstruction both have threaded barrel ends so as my AC43 G43 does,to find threaded barrels on those firearms is very rare,majority of MP40,STG44 and G43 had naked barrel end just like SKS for example…..
Not mention that I have G43 I also have G43 book as well “Hitler’s Garands” where shows all data and development about G43,I also found that AC43 shows collectable value..
The only things that serial correspond with my G43 is barreled housing,bolt cover,gas piston,bolt carrier and some other small parts everything else is different numbers…
Stock is repro but good quality made along side with but plate like original…..
Ever science G43 was fired powerful round carrier nose broked out,I had repaired but never finish in order to fit into bolt lugs area,this particular nose or tail locks or unlocks bolt locking lugs,very critical area…
When I asked author of book Darrin Weaver he told me that this an common problem with G43’s,becouse carrier had been treated in chemical solution to get hardened rather than thermal treating this cost bolt carrier become very fragile and neather nose get broken during certain amount of time or carrier get cracked at side of body…..
My first bolt also suffered and had little crack which was repaired right away,however that bolt have same serial number just like barreled housing,carrier,piston and few small parts..
Trigger mechanism parts have unknown origin,neather there is letter or numbers on them,hard to identify who was manufacturer but sear have adjusting screw on it and particular issue was build for snipers how sensitive trigger should be…..
The problem with G43’s also close related to gas cylinder,sometimes drilling hole recquired in order to eliminate over pressure which would cost serious damage,also noticed little wable or play between cylinder extension that’s connects with push rod,there very small space which also could cost possible malufanctions,placing thin sized washer is eliminating shaking problems,however every individual G43 different so only professional gunsmith should estimate spacing between and place that washer….
I do believe this is the major mistake Germans did with G43 by allowing some space between connection rod and gas cylinder..
The second major problem while others might think it not a problem is ZF4 scope,that scope limits range to 850 meters while G43 can shoot to 1200 meters instead,this is an correct range and in order to hit something that far need better scope than ZF4,for example adaptation of Russian PSO1 scope to G43 mount somehow..
Hoppy Hopkins,
You got no idea how much apetite MG42 have for ammo,it fires rounds like in blink of an eye,it surely good but very fast for use as regular machine gun,as automated turret no doughts which would have lot’s of ammo plus special cooling device that would prevent MG42 get hot quick..
As normal machine gun I would choose MG34 instead,it have still higher rate than any other modern conventional machine gun but also very controllable,it allow you fire single rounds like rifle or automaticly…
I still love that devil gun,the most rare one is made by Borsigwald which have 4 Waffen Amths on main housing and barrel jacket…..
Collectable value of barrel jacket or housing goes close as 2 grands now,also the Yugoslavian subcontracting factory that made bolt housings also consider rare item….
From what I learned start like that:
First MG34 was build which it takes some years until one universal world first machine gun was made,than further experiments transform that master piece into MG34S than MG34/41 and finaly at end MG81 antiaircraft machine gun….
At final days of WW2 Germans was unable produce more weapons science most factories was destroyed during bombing raids so already existed firearms was remodified and adopted to use at ground wars..
MG81 shown very good example by attaching neather wood stock or folding metal stock but MG81 have higher rate of fire than MG34 and MG42,rate of fire 1600 rounds per minute,twin MG81’s have rate 2000 rounds per minute..
It is short barreled but very fast firing gun…
MG81 barrel is permanent unlike MG34 or MG42 but it have gas escape hole which drops some pressure out and prevent it get hot during firing…..
If MG34 and MG42 would build with feature like this the event of war might take different place…..
German firearms was way advanced than USA,British or Russian and obvious Germans was wining until runned out of ammo,if there would be more available ammo and not stupid Hitler’s retorics of developing new weapons than deffenately Germans would win WW2,they was so close….
If 2nd eastern front won’t be opened Germans would smash everyone,but number one fatal mistake Germans did is ignoring Caucaz fuel storage where Soviets had,if Germans would bomb those areas Russia would loose during WW2…
USA had Illegaly took Hawai from Japan while Russia stole Sahalin Islands among other territories that was part of Japan….
Another critical mistake USA made supporting and aiding Chinese,
We had worm snake on our chest and now snake bites back,China had took illegaly territory in Ocean and had construct Illegal fortress island there….
The only way to describe particular events is when particular country like China forging tools of war and get ready for war,logicly it makes perfect sense because they have near all pacific rim and can attack any nearby country than occupy it…
China is copycat country,the only way to defeat them is invent something new something that not exist yet and something that is not nuclear…
Only advanced technology can save the world from nuclear abomination,problem is that nuclear technology consume lot of labor and money plus at end it only do contamination and create uninhabitable areas..
Majority of things China copycat from other countries,remember SKS and AK47??
Even those guns was copycat,China cannot invent something on their own,they deployed spies who stealing ideas and technology,few years ago Chinese spy had stole naval fleet construction from Canada…
Spy had been captured but probably released,but I would execute him instead..
We cannot allow those roaches take control of the world,
Their ideas is delusional and slave like,this is what happens when you make mistake in past,the future become very difficult and more conflicts become created…
“German firearms was way advanced than USA,British or Russian”
One MG for bipod and tripod was good idea, but on the other time they lack time for developing self-loading rifle without hole in barrel wall, Britain don’t adopt self-loading but USA has M1 Garand and Russia has AVS-36 and SVT, which was supposed to become default infantry rifle, but war broke out earlier.
“Majority of things China copycat from other countries,remember SKS and AK47??”
Effect of political situation of these times, for not-copy Chinese fire-arm see QBZ-95:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95
Well said Daweo
you can even ad that in 1940 France (and somehow Belgium) was on the edge of adopting a semi-auto. BRNO built the ZH29 and so on.
Germany was on hurry to catch the train: the 100’000 men Reichswehr couldn’t arm a 1’000’000 men Wechmacht.
Production of MG34 was slower than the production of BREN in England and Châtellerault mle 1924-29 in France.
For the chinese, you forget type 63 and 81 rifles and type 67 Machine Gun. The end of the soviet help in 1960 obliged the chinese to be “creative”
Val said “USA,British or Russian” so I make notes about this nations, but others countries also were developing self-loading rifle.
“you can even ad that in 1940 France (and somehow Belgium) was on the edge of adopting a semi-auto.”
I do not have special knowledge about French fire-arm (I don’t understand Français) nor Belgian (I don’t understand Vlaams (Flemish)), so I know is that some small quantity of MAS-40 was produced before Fall of France and it was later developed into MAS-49 self-loading rifle. Whatever MAS-40 was officially adopted or used during combat in 1940 or what was is excepted role – every soldier rifle or only for selected shooters – I don’t know, ask someone better knowing Armée de terre weapons in 1940 topic.
“BRNO built the ZH29 and so on”
In Poland first small batch of Maroszek self-loading rifle was produced
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kbsp_wz._1938M
but as outcome of Fall Weiss Poland fall before any more could be produced.
My goal was to underline that the superiority of the germans in automatic weapons at the beginning of the second war, is a myth.
In the 1930’s the situation was very different between the WW1 victors (Great Britain, USA, France)and Germany.
Germany had to destroy large quantities of small arms (only 200’000 rifles/carbines allowed for the Reichswehr. Whereas the British, French and American had a lot of surplus of rifles/pistols/machine-guns from the Great War.
Hence the British and the French didn’t put a prority in replacing their rifles and began the war with SMLE / P14 / Lebel / various Berthier (in 8mm).
The only urgent need, in small arms, was the Light Machine Gun, to replace Lewis and Chauchat. It led to the adoption in wide numbers of the BREN and Châtellerault FM 1924/29.
On the other side the Germans had to rebuild their arsenal. Adopting the KAR 98K based on the Gewehr 98, was some kind of a simple solution. Same thing occured with the MG34 : better to adopt a single weapon as a SAW and as a support weapon at the battalion level.
I agree that both are superb and efficient weapons, but it was (partially) an urgent need that led to their adoption.
You spoke about the battle of France in 1940. It’s barely known that the Germans lacked machine guns, contrary to the french in May 1940 : 190’000 Machine guns & LMG for the French, 150’000 MG and LMG for the Germans (135’000 FM 24/29 LMG against 85’000 MG34)
Thanks Ian
It’s far from forgotten, but still well worth reminding ourselves about.
The engineering balance achieved in the G98 is probably un-rivalled in any other gun.
no wonder that several manufacturers are still making new 98 actions 118 years on from its first military adoption
It is not the easiest of guns to manufacture, and perhaps could have been designed with a larger bedding area, larger recoil lug and far more rigid tang and receiver mid section, as bedding stability isn’t it’s greatest strength
But, in terms of providing a safe and soldier proof rifle, that was easy to use and to maintain, I don’t think it has a rival.
the big mauser extractor doesn’t have a rival for strength, minimal case head protrusion or for controlled feeding.
the later buffalo newton ejector would have been a nice touch, but even the properly made 98 bolts manage to maintain an unsplit locking surface on the top/left lug
Its one piece bolt avoids the easily lost bolt head and extractor of the G88 and the mannlicher rifles which copied the G88 bolt.
The inner collar in the receiver ring, and seating the simple flat faced off breech end of the barrel on it removes one of the tolerances for headspacing a new barrel, helps stabilize potential wobble in the threads and it builds case head protrusion into the action, it cannot be messed up without significant effort being invested to mess it up
and case head protrusion is minimal, even by today’s standards
There’s no question about the bolt being locked when the handle is turned down, and the firing pin won’t reach a primer until the bolt is properly locked.
The quarter inch of chambering and extraction cam displacement on the bolt is a fantastic feature. the resultant smaller lug seating is perfectly adequate for the military rounds that the 98 was chambered for, including those chambered for the 8mm Bofors.
although it does occasionally result in setback of the receiver locking seats with some sporting chamberings when they are combined with heavy use.
It’s hard to think of a modern rifle design that comes anywhere near the user frendliness of a ’98.
Sad part is that before everyone was manufacture good quality guns from steel,
Now weapons even tools made partly from aluminum if not zink alloy and plastic,what kind of shit is that???
You trying to shoot it breaks apart because aluminum or zink cannot sustain recoil pressure or if you want tight wheel nuts impact gun touching hub and get scratched and grinded where clutch area is….
They might decrease size and weight but wear resistance not get reduced,older guns just like older tools Craftsman and Stanley was better made than modern junk,everyone can agree with me on that part..
Pretty much…
Every design is a compromise
you choose the features you want and perhaps don’t want so much
in the case of a new all bar stock (or forged) then fully machined Mauser 98 action and cut rifled barrel, chambered and throated truly concentric to the bore…
You might expect to pay at least a couple of thousand more than for a new Ruger, Remington, Savage etc
manufacturers will only do what people are willing to pay for; if TC still sell guns with crooked chambers and throats – that’s because people are willing to buy guns with crooked chambers and throats.