Get Entered to win this very rare Mamba!
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DEADLINE to ENTER is 12/20/2024 @ 11:59 PM PST
Today we are taking the Mamba out to the range to see just how badly (or how well) it works. This is one of the Mambas that was assembled in the US by Navy Arms – only a very small number of these went on the market before the whole project was abandoned.
The Mamba was originally conceived in a 1970s Salisbury, Rhodesia barroom bull session about the best elements of semiauto pistols. The project would wind up being pushed by an American expat named Joe Hale, and […]
The Halbek Device was an interesting clamp-on muzzle brake designed by two Rhodesians, Douglas Hall and Marthinus Bekker. It was patented in Rhodesia in 1977 and in the US in 1980, and manufactured in small […]
FIREARMS: Developed and Manufactured in Southern Africa 1949-2000 Until recently, there has been very little published information on South African and Rhodesian firearms outside of a few sporadic magazine articles – but that is no […]
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Why was it designed to be the next to last pistol?
The Mamba was one of those pistols that looked really, really good on the pages of all the late 1970s through early 1990s gun magazines, but which never quite managed to make it onto the market.
Looked good, never lived up to the hype. As I recall, the Mamba was touted as “the gun George C. Nonte would have designed” by some, and they traded on his name and supposed involvement/improvement a lot more than anyone really had a right to.
The only gun of that era with similar hype that actually deserved it? The Glock. And, I’m sad to say that I dismissed it out of hand, based on association with those gun rag writers approval. Got burned a few too many times by things like the Mamba and the BREN Ten…
I always saw the Mamba as a weird cross between the Smith & Wesson Model 59 and the Taurus PT-99. So I never had much interest in it.
I always thought the main selling point of the Mamba was the whole Rhodesia romanticism thing. Although Navy Arms said it was made in South Africa, possibly for import restriction reasons.
Mostly, its problem was that it came on the market at a time when the market was already over-supplied with SA/DA “wondernines”. And most people wanting one wanted one they could be sure of getting parts and service for, especially magazines. On those counts, the Mamba just didn’t qualify.
For anybody wanting a cheap, reliable “wondernine”, the FEG P9R probably was the best low-cost choice. Just as anyone wanting an FN High Power but who couldn’t afford FN’s MSRP could get a PJK9-HP for about a fourth of what FN was asking. In the late 90s, I saw them selling for around $225 new.
Today, low-cost “wondernines” seem to be hard to come by. The Ruger Security-9 seems to be pretty much the only one around, and it has recurring searage problems. The discontinued Walther Creed reportedly had similar issues.
I find it interesting that people who say that it’s “just not possible” to make a quality double-action revolver to sell for under $1500 retail seem to think nothing of forking over a grand or more for what I’d call a basic 9mm service automatic.
There’s something very wrong with this picture.
clear ether
eon
I think part of the problem is that revolvers are seen as a modern lightsaber; as Obi Wan Kenobi put it “This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.”
The 9mm wondernine is pretty much a modern blaster; a commodity weapon for a commodity market. They really ought to be sold in blister-packs at cash registers… Conceptually, at least. The fact that they’re treated as pricey goods (Glock, imma lookin’ at yew…) is a bit of a travesty. One of the guys I knew a few years back was telling me that manufacture on a Glock 19 was only about fifty bucks, all told; the rest was marketing, liability, and pure profit. I imagine that S&W is able to churn out the M&P for close to the same. Any time they need to, they can drop the costs.
Once you’ve amortized the tooling, modern polymer handguns are dirt cheap to manufacture. Or, so I’ve been assured… The profit margins are obscene, apparently, which is how Gaston was able to “diversify” into pricey horse semen for the racier sorts of folks.
The revolver vs. automatic thing pretty much depends on what you’re intending to do with the pistol.
(Yes, both revolvers and automatics are “pistols”. So are single-shots, breech-or-muzzle-loading. Don’t get me started on the semantics, I’m highly experienced in transforming bureaucratese into plain English. đ )
Generally, if the shooting involves high accuracy at ranges beyond about ten meters and putting the target on the ground with one or two center hits, you want a revolver, as they can use ammunition that an automatic just can’t cope with. (Unless its name is “Auto-Mag”.) Hunting, target shooting (especially Olympic other than rapid-fire) and that specialized function known as the “trail gun” are the chief domains of the revolver.
NB: I tried using autos as trail guns, in .22 LR, 10mm, 7.62 x 25mm Czech M52, and 9 x 23mm Largo. Only the last came up to the performance of a medium frame .357 revolver, so I concluded that “trail gun” was not something an auto other than a .22 LR could do well. Although the PMR-30 in .22 WMR tends to make me rethink that just a bit.
Incidentally, other than cowboy action shooting, the hunting field, target range and especially the trail are the last domains of the traditional “Peacemaker”-type single-action revolver. All of the above are generally brought into action more-or-less deliberately, so the necessity of thumb-cocking the piece first is not really a problem.
As for the “bedside table drawer/things that go ‘bump’ in the night” category, your best choice is still a snub-nosed double-action revolver chambered for the most powerful round you can consistently hit with, firing with only one hand. Because your other hand will likely have a flashlight in it.
Anything requiring arming or loading before use is probably not a good idea today; yes, that includes the pump-action or self-loading shotgun. Post-modern miscreants are not intimidated by the sound of a shotgun being racked; they tend to open fire on wherever they think the sound came from.
Their first notification of your position should be either (1) being blinded by your tactical flashlight, accompanied by your order to not move, drop everything and raise their hands, or (2) if the situation demands it, your muzzle flash.
The double-action revolver is again the indicated specific. Although I suppose the modern Glock-type auto has its points, in this function, as well. (Just remember to rotate magazines once a week- with a minimum of five magazines in the queue. And for this function it must have the chamber loaded at all times.)
As for it being a “snubby”, it’s harder for an intruder to grab out of your hand if he’s waiting to try it just outside your bedroom door. And at “inside the living room” range, any loss of velocity or accuracy from the short barrel is more of a theoretical debate than something to worry about.
As to cost and durability, Taurus and Charter Arms revolvers are reasonably priced and come with a lifetime warranty. Colt and S&W could learn a thing or two from those firms. (Of course they won’t.)
I suspect that in the 23rd Century, a real-life Capt. Kirk commanding a real-life starship Enterprise, beaming down with a landing party (none of this “Away Team” nonsense), will likely still have a “conventional” firearm on his belt, rather than a magickal “hand phaser”.
And that firearm is as likely to be a revolver as an automatic.
cheers
eon
I dunno on the Captain Kirk-on-a-landing-party thing. When was the last time you heard of a capital ship commander doing that, ever? I think that went out with the Age of Sail, and ain’t ever coming back. Landing party duty is the exclusive bailiwick of the expendable Ensign or Lieutenant, along with the usual suspect lower enlisted scum. You won’t find the Senior Chief on such duties, lest you have to explain to the Admiralty how the hell you lost their very-expensively qualified senior personnel for them.
Now, realistically? If it’s an embassy sort of visit, an official port call? Sure; then the commander will be doing the deed, and likely snaffling up the local loose women to boot. Tactical missions, doing risky things? Nuh-uh; not on. If only for the reason that replacing him once he’s contracted some fluorescently-colored venereal disease and turned himself into a bubbling pool of goo is going to be prohibitively expensive.
Higher the value of whatever they’re commanding, the less likely you’re going to find someone like William Shatner portrayed. Those days went out with fighters that cost just a few hundred thousand dollars to replace; once you’re talking B1-bomber expensive, those will only be commanded by staid, elder types who’ve got about as much personality as an insurance company actuary.
“(…)can use ammunition that an automatic just canât cope with. (Unless its name is âAuto-Magâ.) (…)”
There is another one now https://modernfirearms.net/en/handguns/handguns-en/czech-republic-semi-automatic-pistols/fk-field-tactical-eng/
“(…)none of this âAway Teamâ nonsense(…)”
Now I know this is pun intended at https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/star-trek-away-team-review/1900-2699100/ yet I am unable to comprehend it.
“(…)Landing party duty is the exclusive bailiwick of the expendable Ensign or Lieutenant, along with the usual suspect lower enlisted scum(…)”
With progress of technology I would suspect that “in the 23rd Century” this might be done with unmanned vehicles.
@ Daweo
And fortunately they make the less expensive polymer and compact models.
7.5 FK is practically M1 Carbine power out of an handgun and with better ballisitic coefficient.
Set your Pfizers to Clot…
Surely Glock prices has little to do with manufacturing costs, when there are high quality, polymer framed, striker fired, guns, manufactured in lower volumes, in high-labour-costs countries, sold for 100-200$ MSRP less.
Gunzines…
how sources of information have changed
in the late 70s and early 80s, in Britain, we had Colin Greenwood’s “guns review” magazine then a bit later we got Jan Stevenson’s “handgunner”, both excellent, but a bit thin.
Then I discovered Guns and Ammo, which had to be specially ordered, didn’t always arrive and cost the equivalent in today’s money of about $15 or $20 us, per issue.
if only I’d known how poor the content was, even back then (with the notable exception of one or two genuine people like Ross Seyfreid)
the few books that I got to find out about, for example, de Haas’ bolt actions, and endless Ian V Hogg shit, were next to impossible to get hold of. I think I spent over two years trying to get de Haas, through a bookshop in a local town, calling in whenever I was in the town.
later on, I discovered Ray Rilings in Philidelphia, and used to buy mail order from there.
In that low information world, the Mamba received an enviable amount of hype and positive coverage.
It’s interesting to see just how poor its operation is and how scabby the castings are.
I wonder how far we have been misleas in every other area of our lives?
mislead
“(…)how far we have been misleas in every other area of our lives?”
c.f. so-called Gell Mann effect e. g. https://themindcollection.com/gell-mann-amnesia-effect/
@Kieth,
I don’t think you really want to know, to be quite honest.
Nearly every information source I’ve used over the last fifty years of my life has proven to have at least some holes in it, even Encyclopedia Britannica, which used to be a gold standard for accuracy.
And, what is the worst thing about it? The dawning realization that it’s always been like this. The “truth”, such as it is, is entirely subjective to about 90% of the population, and they never, ever bother to correct their thinking. It’s hard for me, even, and I make a conscious effort to correct my own errors.
What I think it boils down to is that whatever information “gets there first” tends to lay down tracks that are nearly impossible to re-lay in later life, for most people.
You observe it in the prevalence of the old “My M16 was made by Mattel…” fudd-lore. Once someone hears that fairy tale from what they consider a “reliable source”, or mis-hear it? It’s there, for life. Apparently.
I once sat in front of a classroom doing “train-the-trainer” stuff on the M16A2. During the course of which, I covered the various fairy-tale stories that “everyone knew”, that weren’t at all true. Everyone’s head was nodding, all agreed that “Yeah, that’s BS…”, mainly because I presented the actual, y’know… Evidence.
Couple weeks later, I’m observing one of the classes taught by one of those trainers I’d so laboriously taught. Dude’s telling the class about his uncle, who had been issued one of the Mattel rifles… I’m standing there in jaw-dropped dismay, make the correction on him, embarrassing him in front of his entire class… Couldn’t let that BS pass without correction, ya know?
Still later on, I’m at a unit social function, where his uncle is an invited guest, having been assigned to our unit in Vietnam. Of course, I had to ask him… He looked at me as if I were quite mad, and said “I’ve never said that, ever, to anyone…”
I called over his nephew, nephew spouts off about it all, and the uncle is standing there with this look of incredulity as to “How is this a relative of mine…?”, and then he tells the nephew that he’s delusional, and that he never, ever said such a thing.
Swear to God, that idiot was still telling people about Mattel M16s some years later when I ran into him again. It was an illuminating experience, and highly annoying. I think there’s an informational equivalent to Gresham’s Law about bad money driving out good… Good, correct information? Boring, unromantic, not worth remembering. Bad information? Romantic, easily remembered, far “stickier” than the good stuff.
So I’ve come to believe, anyway.
Keith:
Yes, in retrospect the 1980s were a bit of a “golden age”. I enjoyed Guns Review and Handgunner, I even still have the copies. I think I joined Handgunner at about issue 2 or 3, still have never seen number 1!
I am sorry you had trouble finding Guns & Ammo, it was easily available in Manchester at the time. I also enjoyed Combat Handguns and Soldier of Fortune (especially if Masaad Ayoob or Peter G. Kokalis were writing).
Obviously the British magazines are defunct now, gone the way of British shooting, and I don’t see the American ones either, though they may be around. But at least we had the 80s!
It’s impressive how this pistol solves the SA/DA discussion by switching to SA or DA according to the current tactical requirements.
Ian; Why am I being blocked over and over again?
eon
As far as I can tell you aren’t.
Bren Ten was not a bad pistol, but an odd hot round at the time limited its initial popularity. Inconsistent manufacture also caused problems. Ruger Cast Iron 9MM was referred to as Boat Anchors in the late 1980s. I had a friend who bought a Mamba. The one he had was “blessed” with sharp edges.