Disclaimers: Apex Gun Parts is a longtime sponsor of this site. Prexis is not; in fact this was my first (and last) business transaction with Prexis. HMG is not a site sponsor, but has provided me with products for review in the past.
A little while back, Apex Gun Parts started selling parts kits for the Spanish CETME-L rifles – these were roller-delayed blowback rifles in 5.56mm designed and manufactured in Spain. They use the same mechanism as the fairly ubiquitous HK rifle series, but the CETME-L is not an HK copy. I was pretty excited about these kits, as the CETME-L is a neat and somewhat unique rifle that had not before been available in the US.
The obstacle, however, was that semiauto H&K parts and receivers will not fit CEMT-L rifles. For example, the receiver profile of the CETME-L is square, where the HK rifles are rounded. The CETME-L also incorporates the trigger housing into the receiver, whereas HK makes the trigger pack a self-contained detachable part. So while having a CETME-L parts kit was a great opportunity, actually building it into a functioning rifle would require waiting for someone to start making CETME-L-specific parts.
The first person/company to offer a receiver solution was Mike Jestis, who does business under the names Prexis and Precision American Rifle. He advertised 80% flats for the CETME-L, and bending jigs to use with them. Prices were (and still are, as of July 10th 2015) $125 for the flat and $120 for the bending jig. After adding on tax (Prexis is located in Arizona as am I, so state sales tax applied) and shipping the total came to $285.60. If you do the numbers, you will see that the shipping was about $30, for what was three bubble wrap bags in a USPS flat rate box. Ouch. In fact, the base prices struck me as pretty steep too, considering the relative simplicity of the parts. However, I figured that was the premium one gets to charge when one is the only option for an item.
I placed my order on April 13th, 2015. A month later, I realized that nothing had yet arrived, and so I emailed Mike to ask what the status was. He replied promptly that he was just finishing a run of the parts, and mine would ship that week. Another month went by with no package arriving, and so I inquired via email a second time. This email got no reply. I couldn’t find a phone number for the company, and my Google attempts to dig one up revealed something I should have found out back in April – Prexis has an absolutely horrible reputation when it comes to customer service, order fulfillment, and product quality. At this point, I figured it would not be useful to try to continue trying to work with Mike Jestis, so instead I called my bank and filed a claim to get my payment back on account of the purchased product not being shipped.
My bank may be a soulless and evil multinational corporation, but they sure made that refund process simple. A few minutes later the process was complete. In the interests of avoiding any potential complications, I then sent another email to Jestis telling him I had gotten my payment refunded by my bank and to consider my order cancelled. He may have ignored my inquiry on the status of the parts, but he sure answered that cancellation email quickly. He said my parts had just been finished that day. What a fortuitous coincidence, after two months! I will abbreviate an otherwise somewhat lengthly tale and just say that after three emails telling him not to ship anything, parts showed up at my home, postmarked 2 days after the email discussion. Mike told me to keep them with no obligation.
So, that is how I ended up with this flat and bending jig (which I have since given to my friend Chuck at GunLab, who will be posting a more detailed comparison between it and an original cut CETME-L receiver shortly). Normally I would probably not bother to do anything more at this point, but in this case I feel obligated to post a review of the parts for several reasons:
- The quality is very poor – without very substantial repair/reworking, this is not something that could be used to make an acceptable rifle.
- The price is quite high considering what is being received.
- I have not seen photos or a firsthand description of these flats anywhere else.
- Mike Jestis’ customer service and communication was extremely poor.
In short, I consider myself fortunate to have escaped from this bad decision with my money intact, and I don’t want anyone else to make the mistake of ordering one of these flats or jigs. When small companies like Prexis make good parts, I love to be able to help them out and I am willing to cut some slack for good folks who are doing their best. This is not one of those situations. This stuff is junk, and nobody should buy it.
The Flat
I have a bit of experience with pressings myself:
In that video, you see a pressing done the proper way, if I may be so bold. The press is a pretty massive affair, capable of delivering enough pressure over a large area to smoothly form the entire piece on one operation. You can’t see it on the footage, but the corners and edges on both die halves are rounded to prevent tearing of the metal. This is not how Prexis CETME-L flats are made.
Judging from the results, the Prexis flats are made on a small shop press, probably something hand-powered. It begins with a laser or water-jet cut outline, and then each feature is pressed independently. This would be done because the press is not powerful enough to make all the features simultaneously (and probably does not have a working area large enough to fit the whole flat anyway). We can tell this, because most of the features are not square to any other features. I added a couple straight reference lines to this photo to illustrate the point:
Some other issues to note:
- The main lengthwise stamps in the center section are too shallow (most likely because the press was too weak to make them the proper depth).
- The ejection port is cut into the profile of one of those long features.
- The material is blatantly cut open at the back of the front trunnion feature. This was likely done because it is likely impossible to properly stamp this area with a small press.
- The bolt guide rails appear to have been made by hand, with a hammer and metal block (see detailed photos below).
The Jig
The bending jig I received is even more half-hearted than the flat. All of the machining done on it is rough, with lots of burrs left over. The male portion was left with sharp square corners, just waiting to tear or stress the inside of the main bends in the flat. The “locator pins” included are quite literally half the diameter of the pin hols in the flat and jig – there is nor way they can actually hold the parts in precise alignment. That seems such a simple thing to get right – or at least closer to right – that it leaves me really wondering what on earth Jestis is thinking.
Conclusions
Don’t buy from Prexis. He lists a bunch of items that look really cool and can’t be found elsewhere, but don’t fall for it. At the very least, do some Google searching first and see what other paying customers are saying about the products first. I hate to give such a negative review to a small one-man shop, but this one deserves it and I hope none of my readers end up putting their own money into products like these.
If you want a CETME-L receiver flat, I think GunLab will be making them at some point. If you want a complete CETME-L rifle, Hill & Mac Gunworks are planning to have them on the market around the end of the year.
Great review! I’d seen the kits, but after reading this review, I’ll pass.
So, you’re saying you would’ve been better off with a Chinese copy of a CETME-L? 🙂
Sorry to hear about the bad experience though. What an ordeal!
“80% flats”
Sorry for maybe silly question: what 80% means here? 80% iron in steel?
“form the entire piece on one operation”
Depending on technology one stamping or multiple stamping maybe used, for example German Stahlhelm need multiple stamping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baMmJyqQy90
“small shop press, probably something hand-powered”
Notice that during WW2 Resistance fire-arm workshop produced machined fire-arms, not stamped due to lack of press, see multiple Resistance copies of STEN sub-machine gun, Resistance fighters more close to Soviet Union copied (machined) PPD sub-machine gun not (stamped) PPSh sub-machine gun
“what on earth Jestis is thinking”
Tolerances are clearly broken, but now I’m thinking: Did he have blueprints? Or try to reverse-engineer known CETME-L?
“Both jig parts, separate”
What did that circular marks? This part looks too be done as fast as possible considering omitting simple sand-paper use.
80%, in reference to receivers, means that not enough work has been done to make them in to ATF defined receivers, but it’s right about the cusp of that. Contrast with a 0% receiver, which for a AR-15, is a raw forging.
80% refers to a detail of US law. A receiver is legally considered a firearm here once it exceeds 80% complete, so you can sell 80% built receivers without any paperwork or licensing. The ATF decides where the 80% line is for each different type of receiver, but un-bent stamped flats are pretty much always non-firearms in the eyes of the law.
I hate to disagree with our learned host, but as far as the ATF is concerned there is no such thing as “80%”. Something is either a receiver and therefore “a firearm” under NFA and GCA, or it is not and is therefore no more regulated than a doorstop.
80% is a term used in the industry, but the ATF themselves, and the courts, don’t recognize it. The only way you know you’re safe is if you have an ATF letter of determination that the object in question is not a firearm. Otherwise you have bought or sold a firearm illegally!
Just to keep it interesting, from time to time the ATF changes what they consider legal and what they don’t. Some people go into business without that ATF letter, trusting the similarity of their product to previously approved products. ATF’s official position is that their letters are not precedential and you can’t use a letter to anyone else to defend yourself even if your product is exactly the same as the previously approved one.
Sexy though aren’t they, pressings…
This is both fortuitous and disappointing news. I was seriously considering buying one of these kits to assemble and am now glad I didn’t.
A CETME has been on my wish list for a while. It would make a nice pair with my FR-8.
I would absolutely still buy one of the parts kits, if not two (I did buy one, in fact). There are enough of the kits and they are an interesting enough gun that I guarantee the parts will get made by *somebody*. And once they are readily available, I would be surprised if the kit prices don’t double.
This looks suspiciously like the work of somebody who knows a little about metal fabrication, just enough to make themselves think they know a lot more than they do.
Try checking out the thread on weapons guild. Several people have built cetme-l’s from his flats. Most people have had no issues with shipping etc. Are they perfect? No. Do they work? Yes. Coming from building an mg42 out if 5 or more pieces of scrap metal this build should be easy. Everyone should know parts kit builds Will require fitting and welding. Have the ability to make better ones? By all means have at it.
All those troubles for a Cetme L ? Oh my…this gun is so bad that when some genius have the idea to get some thousands of them out of some depot and send them to the Kurds, to help them fight ISIS, many in the spanish Army thinked it was a very bad move because of the lack of overall reliability of the thing…only 10 years of service or so in the Spanish army and then replaced by the german G36, it was also the end of the local made infantry weapons.
But the Cetme C in 7.62 NATO, now we are talking, that’s a superb assault rifle.
That G36 has problems as well apparently.
The Bundeswehr one’s, I read nothing about it here in Spain…but I will not be surprise if the army has decided to bury some bad reports about them. The variants are also widely used by law enforcement forces here.
Still they are certainly better than the military versions of the Cetme L, some bureaucratic clusterf*ck decision (about lack of money for defense spending) decided that the one’s for the army have to be made with less cost/unit (half the cost IIRC) so at the end they were unreliable low quality weapons.
But the one’s made for the Guardia Civil (a spanish version of the Gendarmerie) were made without the ”less cost per unit” thing and are considered quite good and still used.
Curiously enough, the weakest and troublesome part of the CETME L was the receiver indeed. The sheet metal and metal treatment used were crappy: the receiver got bent sometimes when conscripts gave them weeks of the hard-life that good-old-CETME C´s could withstand for years, some magazines stopped fitting properly one day or another, ejection failures due to damaged ejection ports, bolts that didn´t lock due to loosen trunions, misalignment or dented paths…
So, getting a good receiver is all a CETME L kit is asking for to shine as it never did before. That means that it should not replicate the quality of original factory receivers, but pre-production specimens´
Wurrr pressings.
I’m so glad to see this review. I have been sitting on an L kit for a while and have been watching Prexis receiver threads on a ‘builders’ board. They looked like ashtrays to me. I’m glad to hear they will work, at least, for that purpose. Gun Lab and HMG give me a lot more confidence that I can get a good rifle built.
There is a guy in Switzerland named Leon Crottet (I think that’s his name) who has a company that builds half-scale firing replicas of a First Model FG42. Now there is a shop that knows how to stamp some intricate, beautiful sheet metal parts.
It is shameful a small one-man workshop does this kind of very poor job. What a disappointment…
As an independent blacksmith, I know a one or two man workshop MUST do a good job, especially when producing a precise piece for the few people that accept to place trust in you.
It is a hard work, indeed, but we all chose do do it : if we do not produce a quality related to the prices we propose, we deserve our treatment.
Producing poor quality products is moking and betrayal. It is a shame. You are right to publicly tell how this man profit of people that place trust in him.
This kind of man does prejudice to us. He rips what he saw.
Ps : please pardon my mistakes, it is late at night in France and I am exhausted. I may have wrote some mistakes I did not correct.
Good to post warnings as you find them. Nice to see you put photos and details as to why.
What we see here is serious attempt to make receiver for exotic weapon. Without trying to be pedantic, there is quite a bit to prerequisite data package; including material specification before you even start. Anything less than that cannot be called industrial but is a step by step duplication. In series production the dies would be progressive starting with strip of metal and ending with complete piece. There would be no need to worry about proper location in dies, lack of which may cause errors. Finally, the welding is a sensitive operation in sense of not causing distortion, burn-outs and secure pieces so they hold thru rigour of firing.
So much more the effort needs to be praised. Actually I did not know Ian had so much practical manufacturing knowledge behind his belt. I am impressed.
Wow. Everyone just needs to take a deep breath. I have bent one of these flats for my kit and I have actually a rifle that appears to function fine. Although I am waiting on Apex to get barrels in stock so that I can do final function testing. First, Jestism / Prexis is more or less a one man show, so I feel reasonable delays are understandable. However I have received everything I ordered from him in a timely manner, Including the CETME L flat. Second, Jestism was the first guy to bring this to market and did this without even having a “real” receiver to use as a reference. He is well aware of the problems with the first batch and has posted that he is working on an updated version. It’s pretty common for a product that is brand new on the market to have problems, but these flats are intended for customers who solve problems. Guys who reweld Madsens and RPDs or who build rifles out of some DOM tubing and bar stock. These are NOT for people who just put together an AR or whatever. In my opinion, buy one if you are willing to do the work and get it working. Otherwise, wait like everybody else for a easier solution or find someone to build it for you.
Typical Weapons Guild fan boy
Thanks the review Ian. It happens to be at very convenient time as I was about to order one of these flats and the jig.
Ian, on this review of the PREXIS CETME Receiver, and I must disagree with you on this review. I believe this is a Tirade from you on a small shop, to support a sponsor of this site, and ingratiate your self with Hill & Mac Gunworks. It seems that since you have found a few sponsors, like ROCK ISLAND AUCTION and JULIAN, you are becoming a shill for these sponsors. You founded this WEBSITE to bring to the forefront “FORGOTTEN WEAPONS, not to be the arbitrator of commercial sponsors
I have built a gun from one of these stampings and used the tooling. Is it perfect, No. Does it function “IT DOES”.
As you know I am trained engineer who spent 35 years in the metal trades, and has both a degree in Mechanical Engineering and a as a trained tool & die maker, I say the idea that you are expecting a perfect part at a minimum price is ludicrous.
Yes, the receiver is not made on a progressive die, which from my experience would cost over $250,000 it was a solution to a problem, maybe not a perfect one but since it makes a reasonable SEMI-AUTOMATIC version of the CETME. I find the knit picking is not justified. If you had assembled the receiver, and found it would not work then you have a real beef.
You are used to the quality of guns produced under Contracts with the different governments of the world, who spend multimillion dollars in tooling, and do not worry what it costs for a gun. To them a gun is a tool and they can afford the costs of the tooling.
Just look at your sponsors who make firing replicas of the different German WWII rifles and ask $5,000 for these guns, are they overpriced. To the average individual who looks at these guns it is way above their cost level.
I have built three different guns from PREXIS supplied receiver kits and they all work:
I cannot justify spending $4000.00 and up for a SP89, when I can build one up for less than $1200.00.
I built one of the PL-85 rifles which is a semi-automatic version of the British SA-85, and it cost me $2,000.
I have also built up a MP-18 from his parts, and it worked great.
Mike Jestis is not an easy man to get hold of and I personally know him, having visited his shop outside of SNOWFLAKE AZ. He lives off thee grid and is miles from anywhere.
I will simply point out that HMG is not planning to offer (as far as I know) parts or 80% receivers for homebuilders to use – they are not actually in competition with Prexis. Also, if I was shilling for sponsors, I would have made up some great story about Prexis in order to help Apex sell more of the kits.
I stand by my position regarding all reviews; I tell the truth as I see it. If a company doesn’t do good work, they don’t become a sponsor in the first place. I don’t expect a perfect part for an unreasonable price; I expect to get what is promised, when it is promised. It Prexis had shipped me a mediocre part in a timely manner, I probably would not have said anything and just been disappointed. It was the repeated lies about shipping dates and the very weird shipment of parts after repeated requests to cancel the order that pushed me to write this. The vast majority of responses from people who have dealt with Prexis have expressed the same or worse as my experience.
I’m sorry to see that you found my work dishonest, but for me excuses about price do not excuse terrible customer service.
Edit to add: Do you have a financial stake in Prexis?
Note to self: give good customer service to the blogger that 99% of my future/current customers follow.
When I saw the title for this review and saw that it was about the Cetme L- I was genuinely excited. I was excited to see the rifle that Ian had built and how it performed and his take on it.
Now that I’ve read the review, I hate to say it but I’m disappointed in Ian and I feel like Mike Jestis is the one being wronged. Sure- you didn’t get the parts when you were promised, but the guy ended up giving you the flat and jig for your troubles. The rest of the review reads like it was colored by your initial disappointment. It seems unfair to call the flats junk if they have been successfully turned into a working rifle. I think you got just what you ordered. A one-man shop reverse engineered a stamped receiver and made it available for those individuals with the skills to make it into a working rifle. When Apex released the Cetme L kits there was a lot of worry that flats wouldn’t be available for years or maybe not ever. Jestis had a proven working solution out within months. I bought one and I didn’t mind that the flat cost more and was poorer quality than what’s available for an AK or ptr91. It’s something I can’t get anywhere else and I didn’t want to wait on other companies to start making them. Or IF they start making them.
If you haven’t, I would recommend you go join the WeaponsGuild.com forum. Read through the Cetme L build thread. Mike Jestis is active there as “Jestism” and you can see how supportive of the builder community he is. I doubt he is in the business for the money. My take is that he is doing something he loves and trying to share it with others the best he can. It’s funny but I think I could also use the previous sentence to describe Ian.
I can see from the comment section that others feel the same way I do. I hope Ian will take notice and maybe rethink his “review”. Or at least expound on it to give some perspective. Ian- you’ve got quite a platform here with this website, the Youtube and Full30 channels. You are already moving to the top of Google searches for “Cetme L”. I appreciate what Mike Jestis does and I’m a little worried what effect your review could have on him or his business. You said it yourself- it’s a one-man shop.
Hmmm, sorry to see first time in my memory on this forum, controversy as it appears to me in the argument above. Well, people sometimes come to disagreements, true.
I venture to say that Ian is making tremendous contribution in firearms knowledge and in many directions, including the one which is subject to this article. We owe him a lot for that.
When people feel strongly one way or the other, disagreements will happen. Individual experience may vary and that is understandable. If I may in any way to contribute to tone down, I’d suggest to hold on common sense and refrain from personal philippic. I want to see his web to continue in congenial spirit. Thanks.
Thanks for the honest review. It’s acceptable for a small shop to have setbacks. It’s unacceptable for a shop to lie about its services.
Isn’t there supposed to be a cut behind the trunnion?
I dont know jack about metal fab of any kind however I have eyes and that crap looks like a 4 year old made it. As for the he lives off the grid excuse for not being able to get in touch with him I have to question the dedication and wisdom of a man who runs a business that sells stuff online and then does not have ready access to the internet. I purchased one of the Apex kits to have built but looks like Im gonna have to wait on the flat. Hey Ian can you at least do push ups on it.
Ian,
I will acknowledge that I do have a small financial stake in PREXIS, and I still stand by my views that your article was not in the primary interest of YOUR website. I apologize to all that I did not mention my stake in PREXIS, it is not large and was given to me in return for teaching MIKE JESTIS CAD/CAM almost 6 years ago.
As to my comments about this issue I just return the comment you made in the same area about another supplier “If you want a complete CETME-L rifle, Hill & Mac Gunworks are planning to have them on the market around the end of the year.” If this is not a commercial endorsement of the company when you have never seen the proposed product “WHAT IS”.
I am a follower of yours, liking the diverse views of different unusual firearms from the “GOLDEN ERA” of firearms design. On this subject I was willing to support your site when you asked for support.
I thought I’d weigh in on this since I have a bachelors in business and Management Information Systems and have firearms knowledge.
After reading comments and doing some research on my own I’ve come to the conclusion that both sides are right in this case. On the one hand, Prexis has a good record and has been business for a while, but it seems quality and service has gone down hill since 2012. Most of the negative posts I’ve found are more recent than the positive ones (apparently PSL barrels have had serious issues and delays). Also going to the WeaponGuild forum for an honest reviews/ opinions wont be unbiased since Mike Jestis owns and moderates the forum (found comments that people who post negative or questioning info have the posts erased and there membership banned.)
Based on all this, I’d say that Prexis is having trouble meeting demand with his current methods of supply. Being a one man shop off the grid and doing E-retail is a poor mix. As word of his work grows so has demand. this puts strain on his operations and quality and availability drops. His customer service is also hurting since we’ve become more internet centered consumer base than we were when Prexis opened 10-15 yrs ago. You have to have good customer service if you do E-retail since messages are instant and don’t take two weeks in the mail or use checks like we used to.
To offer some constructive advice, he either needs to get some investors in order to expand operations quite a bit (apprentice machinists, a web developer, and someone to handle packaging, payments, etc.) or sell out to some one willing to buy out the name and run the product under the Prexis name or there own.
(found comments that people who post negative or questioning info have the posts erased and there membership banned.)
I can guarantee this happens.
I found this article to be informative, in depth, and very honest. I am a member (probably not after this) of Weapons Guild, and have followed the product reviews of the Prexis line, and if one does any searching around, they will find much the same when it comes to quality of product, delivery dates, etc.
Thanks for posting an honest review with pictures that help round out the article.
I think we clearly have several issues coming to a head here. First off its clear Ian did not review the WG thread on these flats. I did and I saw the shortcomings and so I did not order one of these as it was clear to me that this was a “barely workable” flat, far from the HK flats on the market. Without seeing that thread, I can completely understand where Ian is coming from basically expecting HK flat standards and this flat being far from that! WG is the first on the market with something that basically can be MADE to work. Made to work being the key. This is not going to produce a replica of quality enough to stand up to the original. This is more about being able to get a bullet down range and look something like the original. I would call it more like a 50% flat, meaning you have the basic shape but nothing more.
For me I want my firearms to be as close to original as possible. Also I am not a machinist. While being handy, having built several AKs from flats…etc…. I am not looking to get to this level of work into the receiver. I would rather some flats or receivers come out closer to a finished product and use them. You can see in the WG thread, several people basically cut off the front of the flat and mate it to the original receiver chunk that comes with the gun. Looks like hell if you as me but it does “work”. However thats far from what I am looking for.
So I guess in the end I do have to side with Ian on this that if it was not properly advertised. If he detailed the shortcomings and told you exactly what you were getting, then you get what you paid for at any price. However but industry standards of what to expect from Flats ready to be bent into receivers… this product is well short of that line.
While some issues can be explained by being an off the grid one man shop, Prexis customer service is well known for being horrid. That alone is reason enough not to do business with him. Jestism needs to either hire more help and starting running Prexis like an actual business, or restrain his illusions of grandeur and start to only offer items for sale only after a run is completed.
If you have no mechanical aptitude or fine motor skills, forget buying a Praxis CETME-L flat. They are a little “off” and require some thought and tool intensive work to complete. But, to be fair, let’s compare the Prexis flat against the flat made by the article’s author……Oh, wait…..He doesn’t have one.
I ordered and received one of the Prexis flats and have built my kit up just fine. Are there issues that I had to resolve myself? Yes. But, being some level of weekend craftsman, I take these things in stride. Based on my personal work with the Prexis flat, I could go out and create Ver 2 of the flat with a ton of improvements. But, I won’t. No matter how good the thing is, there will be various and sundry buffoons who make a name by trashing other people’s work. I get enough of that without soliciting for more.
Prexis’ flat was the first on the market. To trash his work for being a bit unrefined is like trashing the model T by comparing against a 2015 Land Rover. If you have the skills and patience, buy a Prexis flat and an Apex kit. Take your time and you will be happy to be the only guy at the range with a CETME L. It is not much harder to build than a kit using an HKPARTS flat. If you are incompetent and a poseur, forget it. You won’t get very far and will be hating life….like with every thing else you try to do.
Mike Jestis may be a bit of a blacksmith or hack, but I only have my CETME L today because he had the balls to get off his ass and make something. Thanks, Mike.
“It’s okay to be crap if nobody is in competition with you” is not a good argument. IMO. Do it right or don’t do it at all. Also, don’t lie to your customers about delivery dates. If the problems had been limited to just product quality, I wouldn’t have written this post.
You guys need to lay off jetism and weapons guild.
He is the only person to come up with flats for these.
Yea they are not perfect,but either are you.
He has a lot of time invested in those flats.
As a member of the guild I have watched his flats develope from a idea into reality.
Sorry it’s not as easy as a AR to build,but not many are.
And for the money you can’t beat it.
If you are a member with enough posts you can get the bending jig from the loaner tools thread.
How many people/sites offer to loan tools???
He has a generation 2 coming out that is superior to gen 1.
I suggest you give him and the weapons guild a second chance.
At the guild you will not find a better class of builders.
Builders helping Builders
That’s are motto there,come check us out!
Sorry if telling the truth is perceived as unfair.
I will disagree with anyone defending Prexis… Ive had a barrel on order for almost a year. Ive heard every excuse there is, my help never shows up, family problems, on and on. He has promised it on a certain day, 3 times… STILL WAITING!!!
And I see on WG ever couple weeks, he starts new receiver or barrel projects. Kind of depressing to see new stuff started when he cant supply existing orders! BUYER BEWARE!!! I will be keeping a eye on this discussion.
I believe you will find that anyone defending Mr. Jestis is one of his buddies –
A number of folks have a vested interest in his success – mainly because he has a thousand bucks or more of their money, & he has failed to make good on his business promises…
Check out the Weaponsguild page, & look at the Prexis group buys near the bottom of the page. I am in on one of those, & I, along w/the rest of the starry-eyed hopefuls, have been waiting for nearly seven YEARS for delivery of promised kits. We’ve heard plenty of excuses about Mike’s poor health, bad luck, & generally tough life. We’ve heard revision after revision of projected delivery dates. What we HAVEN’T heard is that anyone has received the goods! More than one of us agreed to ship Mike specialty conversion parts as payment for our kit order. But he never offers to give us our parts back? Shame on us, as you can’t track gun parts the way a bank can track a money transaction.
Mike’s loyal sycophants chant about how it’s a one-man operation, & it’s a brotherhood of craftsmen – nothing at all like going into a gunshop & purchasing a firearm. Unfortunately, it’s all bullshit. Paint it any way you like, Mike Jestis has scammed numerous people by taking their money or property in exchange for a promise of HIS goods, & he has not delivered.
Funny how the Weaponsguild site got “updated” a few years back, & some of the threads got removed because they had become “obsolete.” Coincidentally, those threads contained details of buyers’ purchase agreements w/Mike, along w/some pix of his trip to FL w/some of his beer-drinking buddies, for a “build party.” He was so exhausted from working all those long hours, in ill health (by candlelight, no doubt), that he needed a break. So much for all the deposit funds that he was holding for folk’s kits…
Anyone trying to purchase from this con man must like getting kicked.
Peace,
Matt
Well, Hill & Mac are taking pre-orders for the CETME-L rifles now. $1499. Needless to say the site isn’t exactly burning up the Internet… still 87 out of 100 left at that price.
It looks like a nice gun in the [preview pics, but I was thinking more around PTR pricing, around $1K or so. That extra $500 just makes it too rich for my blood, and obviously a lot of others.
Sarco insists they will have receivers and barrels at some point, so maybe I’ll just spend $300 on one of the ‘very good’ parts kits and sit on it for a while.
Here is my build on the “junk” prexis gen 1 flat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFYXahcIKiE
Ian, did you find anything out about the HMG CETME L rifles at SAhot Show?
Prexis has taken over $50,000 from people an has not delivered anything in three separate pre buys in a 6 year period from 26 guys paying over a $1000 for grease gun kits each to a 410 AR an a AR-44 project . Simply look at the list of those who bought what an paid how much an do the math . Then there is all the other stuff he has never delivered or the work is unusable like PSL barrels. He has a F rating with the BBB . Yet he is now working an supposedly shipping new an different products . His buddies at weapons guild delete an ban those who complain an the site is heavily twisted to keep a constant group of new guys dreaming of getting something. Most of those moderators are invested in his business .
Prexis has not delivered to yet another customer being I. I purchased everything to build a cetme L in march and by April 25 I sent an email to salesprecisionfirearms to check the status of my order this character Mike responded and said my complete order would be shipped May 6 2016.by May 20 something I started sending emails where is my stuff and now this prick will not respond or ship anything.I am really starting to get pissed being from Az and knowing the rural country so good being an AZ cattle rancher I’m about ready to find this Prexis location and pay them a visit now hopefully this mike has a good excuse like being locked up ,or dead.I read his reviews and should have kept my money in my pocket but trying to have a little faith in a fellow Arizonin has cost me $300 and something dollars so to all that see Prexis web site don’t do it it’s phoney bullshit and should be nuked.
Sorry to hear it, Brandon!
This is the 100% TRUTH
Update on HMG CETME-L: https://www.hmgunworks.com/product/hmg-cetme-l-2/
For over 3 Years been dealing with Mike… I can say his timelines are a bold lie, his work is JUNK, and often not even safe…. I never even saw my PL-85 kit and after 2.5 years worth of i need a extra month i trade it for parts of a UMP kit/ receiver (took 9 months to receive and it was junk and he’s cut of communications about a replacement or refund), Both barrels had undersized journals and worse yet shallow chambers… His CETME L receivers as noted are the flat out junk for the money HMgunworks are fair better i will be cutting mine up…
If you receive anything from this company your lucky and its quality never fails to disappoint (good luck on return as well you will only play shadow games)
This is a crooked company!!! And it should be shut down!!!
Prexis has still been avoiding me about shipping me the cetme l receiver and jig i i ordered and payed for does anybody have the directions to this business because I sure want my money back and tired of being blown off any way screw prexis.
I would suggest cancelling your order and getting a refund through your credit card company.
Saddly he generally only allows paypal…why because after 60 days they cant do anything
Thank you I’ll have to dig up my order and try that route but it sure would be more fun finding the nest where this rat lives.
Count me in as one of those guys who were kicked off the Guild when I complained about not receiving my order. I received the flat, but not the weldments, making my build-situation futile.
Some of this stuff I’m hearing about Prexis sounds like straight-up fraud…
Thanks for doing the CETME L build videos Ian. Good work!
I too am a member of the “Guild”, just look through once in a while to get ideas or tips. I have been eyeballing his L flat, yes it is less than half cost of HMG, but after looking at angles, straight edges, parallel lines, on top of the negative Prexis from more than just a few, I feel the $250 plus shipping at HMG is way to go. Or wait and see if Sarco comes up with something. By the way, Apex is selling C and L barrels. They got them from Sarco.
Mike Jestism / Prexis is a total Crook & builds JUNK. If you complain the give you the boot from his web site ” The Weapons Guild ” Then circle the wagons to protect him.
This is the junk I received from him after 2+ year’s waiting
http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22302&PN=1
http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19542&PN=1&TPN=1
I had a similar problem with a similar company and made a complaint to The Better Business Bureau https://www.bbb.org/ You can fill a form out on line. Get all your information and the best dates you can come up with. They will make 3 attempts to help mediate the situation then will give him a bad rating that will hurt him with any of his creditors and banks. ALSO: If you sent him money in anyway through the mail you can file for Federal Mail Fraud. If you made your transaction through Pay Pal or online you can file with the Attorney General in the state he does business from. I did all of these and was sent my money back.
Hill & Mac have had $825 for kit & sent me my bending jig for $150 . Have a jig or boat anchor, no kit . Said will refund the $825 but not $150 because they could supply reciver flat , it fits nothing its a light boat anchor . Ripp off . I have been waiting since december 3 2016.
I really do not understand the willingness to accept bad business practices and sub standard product quality that I see coming from the firearms community. Its like no other sector of the market that I have ever seen.
Hill & Mac have the flats, benders & even new springs. Whole parts kit $799, bender $125 .November said shipping dec. Early jan.2017. January said late march early april , its july & nothing. They don`t have the demill kits. They say someone has kits . That they have been brought into country but is just sitting on them. I cant find one . Was going to bid on one closeing wed the 12th of july, someone bought outright for $600. Started at $400. Really cool rifle but this is crazy now. I agree on business practice. I think Hill & Mac are just in a bad spot , someone is just screwing them.They Think they can build a flat or want big bucks for these things & is more than what quote was to Hill & Mac before delivery. Makes the whole industry seem cheap.
Hey Ian thst kit was bought 4 days before closing bids for $600. Wish Inwould have done thatnyou see any more CETME L kits try to email me would appreceiate
It theanks Jim, PS almost got that onewas hoing to flat purchase when i got up sunday.tolate. thanks again
Wow, what a blast from the past.
In comparison, the HMG flat had some very minor dimensional issues, nothing like Plexis’ in Ian’s pictures:
– Flat was a bit too long, and when I manhandled it to fit their jig, I buggered it a bit where it met the jig’s pins.
– The front stub where it meets the cocking handle’s tube was too short. As a result, the cocking tube is barely touching the front sight, instead of sitting properly on it. I was really lucky. 1 more millimeter and it would be hopeless: I would need to weld an extension between the front sight and the tube.
– But where Hill and Mac take away, Hill and Mac give too: the rear was much too long. Once the rear weldment was in place, there was no way to stuff the stock on and drive the disassembly pins. The only solution available to me was to cut away 3 mm [sic!] of the receiver.
– That led to the stock running upon the sight and I had to cut the stock at the top where it touches the sight base.
Looking at the Plexis though, I think I had a very fortunate escape.
That said, when Karl and Ian filmed their build videos, they absolutely didn’t have any of the dimensional issues above. Their flats fit the jigs and the only fitment of the stock they needed was some grinding at the top of the receiver. Lucky, I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCClmomWc90
years ago when psl kits were just about to dry up i bought a parts kit. not realizing the lack of barrels. prexis was the only game in town.
i bought one with mill specs ie threaded muzzle brake etc. was told 4-5 weeks. half over a year and reporting him for fraud i got my barrel. by this time i had built a hand full of ak’s. also im a machinist so i know how to turn parts.
the barrel looked like it was threaded not turned lol. every journal point i had to turn down due to be way way over sized. i then sanded the barrel smooth since it was so chattered you couldn’t cleanly cut it.
cut forwards 50 or so rounds and the extractor cut let go. being a rimmed round a big extractor cut is needed. the case blew out, sending the top cover in to my face , then 20 ft behind me. luckily it hit my safety glasses. i reported it on the guild a site he helped run at that time. had my thread locked and claimed i didnt knwo how to head space etc. one of the mods who was a vendor contacted me. i sent a picture showing the blown up prexis barrel and the stub that came with the kit. could clearly see he removed way too much. that vendor told me him and a few others had takken on completing orders for prexis. he made a large batch of pkm barrels that were bad. so vendors made replacement ones at there cost to help save face for the weapons guild site and removed prexis from the site.
i instantly got a email saying a replacement was on the way….. quickly found out he sent me some ones else barrel.