The 9x39mm cartridge was introduced in the final days of the Soviet Union as a subsonic round intended specifically for suppressed weapons. The first weapons developed for it were the AS Val and VSS Vintorez. These were followed in the early 1990s by the OTs-14 “Groza”, developed by Valery Tells and Yuri Lebedev at Tula. The concept was for a modular multi-purpose rifle which could be assembled on a mission-by-mission basis by special forces or police troops as required. The complete load out included a short barrel with vertical front grip, a longer barrel, an under barrel grenade launcher, and a telescopic sight. The base gun was an AKS-74U (“Krinkov”) converted to 9x39mm. Only a few hundred were ever made, all of them converted from AKS-74U rifles rather than being built from scratch.
The Groza is an exotic and highly touted rifle in the west because it is extremely rare, but it was not really well liked by those who actually used it. It cannot be fired left-handed, it blows a lot of gas into the shooter’s face when used suppressed, and its controls are rather awkward to use. the lofty original plan was to produce it in 9×39 for Spetznaz, 5.45 for the Russian Army, and 5.56mm NATO and 7.62x39mm for export sales. In fact, only the 9x39mm version was made and production took place only in 1994 and 1995.
Many thanks to the Royal Armouries for allowing me to film and disassemble this rifle! The NFC collection there – perhaps the best military small arms collection in Western Europe – is available by appointment to researchers:
https://royalarmouries.org/research/national-firearms-centre/
You can browse the various Armouries collections online here:
https://royalarmouries.org/collection/
Comparisons…
50. Ae
460 gr (30 g)
TII WFNGC subsonic
1,050 ft/s (320 m/s)
1,126 ft⋅lbf 6″ Barrel.
——
9x39mm
16.2 g (250 gr)
SP-6
305 m/s (1,000 ft/s)
(556 ft⋅lbf) 10″ Barrel.
——
9x19mm
8.04 g (124 gr)
Federal FMJ1
1150 ft/s (350 m/s)
364 ft⋅lbf 5″ Barrel.
——
Brown bess 1,300–1,800 ft/s (400–550 m/s) 40″ Barrel.
Interesting gun overall, modular gun, necked up existing cartridge etc…
(Brown Bess that was me thinking of Golf ball sized “The grenade launcher” silenced potential rounds, meh… 10 bore, shorter barrel; Giant silencer perhaps.) No? Oh well, I gathered the 9x39mm had a heavier bullet than 9x19mm.
Interesting stuff, in general… Guns etc.
Saboted gp25 40mm to say 30mm with one of those internal spigot silent rounds… Maybe. Save swapping barrels… etc. Anyway, he he.
I mean if you use a silencer how many shots do you want… At a certain range, golf ball wack. “Crossbow” Grenade, thing. Well anyway made sense, to me 20 mins ago – Hence looking at the Brown Bess.
Maybe some faults with that train of thought, still… Smack, internal piston thing… 20mm’ish “Projectile” 100m.
I do like the layout of that gun, probably more so in 5.45mm… With a “grenade” that you could use a silenced projectile, mind you I like bullpups – You can change mags too fast, with 5.56mm blap, blap, blap, blap… Run out of brass fighting someone other than the Taliban.
“(…) like the layout of that gun, probably more so in 5.45mm…(…)”
Then you might one in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl
https://stalker.fandom.com/wiki/%22Tunder%22_5.45
“(…)40″ Barrel.(…)”
This seems poorly suited for urban warfare
“(…)Golf ball sized “The grenade launcher”(…)”
If you need something like that use Device D http://modernfirearms.net/en/grenade-launchers/russia-grenade-launchers/izdelie-d-eng/
“(…)10 bore, shorter barrel; Giant silencer perhaps(…)”
There exist Salvo 12 https://www.silencershop.com/silencerco-salvo-12.html which works with various 12 gauge shotguns. Please unleash further research to determine if it could be scaled for your requirements (but was never done due to low popularity of 10) or is impossible due to currently used laws of physics.
There are limits to psychics… Anyway, interesting stuff.
Here’s one, you’ll like this with this wayward thinking… Is there such a thing as a silenced bomb? Ha, aye… You fire out a (Suppressed explosive round) piston lark as per the round, but with bb’s arranged around a chamber – Wack, piston into chamber = Pop, out they go into target… Might work 2m radius, or such.
Just thinking aiming a silenced big ball at some German sentry, not great of you miss; one would be like, reload. Meh.
“(…)thing as a silenced bomb?(…)”
According to https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-drones-use-free-falling-bombs-can-carry-up-tonne-2023-02-02/
Israeli armed drones use gravity bombs that produce no noise or smoke as they fall, making them hard for enemies to anticipate or evade, and the largest model of the aircraft can carry up to a tonne of munitions, its military says.
Suppose that would be an “Airgun” the bb’s… Instead of air, hydrogen/hellium something more squishy; quicker. Might work. Although with the diamater of the overall round I.e. 40mm maybe individual spigots with .177/.22 sized balls around… Thus explosive propellent as per the round. Probably one of those things, bit of testing would resolve a few issues. Utilty, say numerous Gerry sentries. Two of you could drop four, silently – At once, must count that.
“(…)hydrogen/hellium(…)”
Please elaborate more about said mixture and explain how it would be used operationally i.e. how it would be carried during field usage.
Co2 type cartridges only for shot, not be making many. Anyway, that was MK1 theres space for a whole load of spigots; telescoping ones. Anyway just a thought, nobody likes missing with a silencer. End of.
Just saw the video this morning on the Groza OTs-14. Jeez, what a Frankenstein of gun. And like any “Frankenstein” creation it never worked out very well.
“(…)obviously you are not shooting 1 and 4 at the same time(…)”
According to https://topwar.ru/74129-podstvolnye-granatomety-gp-25-koster-i-gp-30-obuvka.html
Для удобства наведения на цель ГП-30М снабжен механическим рамочным прицелом, который учитывает деривацию гранат на всей дальности настильной и навесной траектории стрельбы.
Therefore each side is marked for different kind of trajectory (observe that if you have fire-arm and need to shot closer than maximum there are 2 possible elevations to do so – one is elevation greater than elevation for maximum range, one is elevation lesser than elevation for lower range)
If you need graphical illustration to better understand see 1st image from top https://nastavleniya.ru/OSS/os7.html
No, I mean as a grenade I.e. Bang!!! Thus 4… “Shrapel so to speak” anyway thanks for the links; la hitte sort of cannon design, or the shotgun with rifling but just at the end cosmos was it… So you could shoot slugs also. Hmmm. I sort of find that interesting in regards, a potential layout… In the sense of, said grenade is a self contained volcanic round’ish. Thus just sort of interesting in regards, in away a whole mag could sit on top of a barrel that was essentially a shroud and back feed rounds… Sort of cosmos but in reverse. Maybe of more use in bigger calibres – Seperate the projectile from the propellent type thing.
Seperating the projectile and propellent may assist in a gast gun; shorter rearward motion, rotorize the projectile… Aghast gun; point being, may be able to get 6 barrel mini gun fire in 3 just via that distance I.e. Cartridge length.
Barrels don’t rotate, is a gast gun but loads the third barrel – Via one = Projectile, two = charge – 2nd fires it’s return fires third… Be ways, polymer rounds.
9 x 39 mm could make a good white tail cartridge. Or mule deer, given how many are taken from 100 yards or less. (Or maybe hog? I leave that to you fellers from hog country.) I think I’d start with a 180 gr bullet and load for 2200 fps to start. To hell with Spetznaz.
The 9 x 39mm (7N9) cartridge has a .354in land diameter, and is 1.524in case length.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9739mm
Bump it to .358in and it would be legal for deer in Indiana.
Still, the platform has all the usual “bullpup” defects. You can’t fire it left-handed, you get a faceful of gas at every ejection, you’re cuddling the maximum breech pressure up to your cheek. And of course in rapid fire that AK breech cover can get a bit warm.
The cartridge has potential. The platform sucks.
clear ether
eon
There already exists sporting-hunting version of 9×39 cartridge called which has 18 g bullet and muzzle velocity 330 m/s.
OTs-14 does make little sense for such purpose, beyond far from optimal ergonomics sans grenade launcher it is poorly balanced.
TOZ offers civilian version of VSS https://www.huntworld.ru/blog/vss-vintorez-ot-toz-obzor-grazhdanskoy-versii-otlichnoy-snayperskoy-vintovki/ it is self-loading, has longer barrel (to comply with laws of Russian Federation) and no suppressor (only mock-up, to comply with laws of Russian Federation), advert suggests it is apt for hunting sus scrofa.
Molot offers repeating rifle named ВПО-183 https://www.kalashnikov.ru/dlya-gornoj-ohoty-ohotnichij-karabin-gornostaj-9-39-vpo-183/
I’d go for the bolt-action. It looks like a really nice little carbine to put a 3X-6X scope on top of. Call it a general-purpose “knock-about” rifle or “truck gun”.
cheers
eon
“(…)put a 3X-6X scope on top of.(…)”
According to https://guns.club/lib/oruzhie/karabin-vpo-gornostay/ receiver sports Weaver rail (note: above link shows ВПО-193 which differs from ВПО-183 by using .223 Rem cartridge)
The stock of the semiauto seems to have been made in a garage (and by someone not that skilled).