When we think about roller-delayed blowback firearms, we generally think of H&K rifles – but H&K also made a miniature version of the system for the P9 pistol in the late 1960s. The P9 was made as a single-stack design in both 9mm and .45ACP, along with a target version (with adjustable sights) and a suppressor-ready version which is what we have in today’s video). The original short run of production was the basic P9, with a single-action-only trigger, which was quickly replaced by the P9S with a double-action trigger. The P9 was a pretty good gun overall, and I really don’t have any complaints about it after shooting (although the cocking/decocking lever is not necessarily intuitive).
Videos
Tengo una H6K9S. He tenido un problema , al romper la pieza situada en la parte anterior del armazón, que sirve de apoyo al cañon, y va solidaria mediante dos tornillos (en su interior lleva en amortiguador de polímero). El importador me dice que no quedan repuestos de este tipo de arma. ¿ Alguien me puede ayudar?
Excellent weapon, the P9s. I’ve got a 9mmP one, and it’s among my more accurate handguns.
Funny side note: One of these was carried prominently by the lead character on the cop series “Hunter” in the 1980’s. Actor Fred Dryer’s P9S had a longer Target barrel and barrel weight – not really concealable, but they made it work in a shoulder-holster anyway.
Another “roller-locked” pistol you should look at is the CZ-52, a fairly common service pistol made behind the Iron Curtain in 1952-54. Great gun, and a neat study in the roller-locking design.
Also used, at least in the one episode I saw, on the 1983-1986 TV series Hardcastle and McCormick, where the retired judge played by Brian Keith wielded one. Unsure of the caliber but since Keith was a wartime Marine machine gunner, it was probably a 45acp…..I hope.
In the late 1980’s these were being sold NIB either calibers for approx. $600.00. Boxes are really cool, old style HK hard cardboard with metal mesh reinforced corners for additional box rigidity. All came with 2 clips , full paperwork plus target. Very neat package, even back then not an inexpensive piece though. The long target barrel was also being pushed at the same time and they ran around 150 to 175 or thereabouts. Never made a target version but did have the 45acp barrel cut and threaded for a suppressor. I had one in each caliber, a 9mm and a 45, but suppressed the 45 since no special sub sonic ammo was really needed. I hope the new owners are treating them well, as they are long, long gone from me.
Magazines, not clips. Why is this always a thing?
Such a basic aspect of firearms knowledge.
to clarify, I was referring to myself, that I never made a target version from the additional target barrel I purchased . H&K did indeed make a factory target version which I know came in at least the 9mm, unsure if 45 as well. It has as standard a long target style barrel, adjustable target sights (adjustable factory rear target sights were available on either caliber with the regular length barrel as well. This was in lieu of the standard rear combat sights and cost a bit more money back then) Plus the grip was a beautifully sculptured wooden target grip—very comfortable for a right handed shooter as I recall plus it had counterweights up front, one could add or subtract the amount of weight depending on other factors—what a sweet piece and to think in the early and mid 90’s they were so much more available and to me reasonable back then.
Overdesigned and overrated.
A 43-year old specimen I bought showed the elastic recoil buffer to totally dessicated and useless. The Instruction and Repair Manual does recommends checking the frame for cracks. If you are considering buying a used one inspect it first – that means removing both the grip and trigger guard.
A limited-lifespan rubber recoil buffer – what were they thinking at HK ? My Mauser C-96 made in 1889 is still serviceable more than 100 years later.
The decocking lever is an invitation to an Accidental Discharge – and I do mean AD, not Negligent Discharge.
There is no slide release lever – you have to use the second hand to pull the slide out of its locked-open position. There obviously was no room for such a lever because of the cocking/decocking lever. Even something so simple as rounding off any sharp edge on the sights was too much to ask for.
Removing the grip reveals a very complex frame – obviously designed by a bunch of engineers on heavy-duty steroids.
I am keeping it a curiousity – the famed HK over-engineering, not to shhot, not without its fragile rubber buffer. This dog deserved to become extinct.
A P7M8 is a far superior product. Even more complex than the P9S and not dependent upon a rubber buffer yuou cannot find anymore.
J. Hogue’s comments are largely incorrect.
The cocking lever is the slide release.
The buffers last a decent amount of time and are inexpensive to replace – much like a recoil spring in most guns. You can replace the buffer without removing the trigger guard – you just take out the screws. The buffer is the reason the P9S has such a phenomenal reputation for low recoil and flat shooting – especially for a .45.
Decocking is fairly safe because pushing down on the cocking lever automatically intercepts the hammer, so if you have the cocking lever pushed down at all when you pull the trigger it won’t fire no matter what you do afterwards. But if there is any concern, put the firing pin safety on while decocking.
Earlier pistols did not have the feed ramp to feed hollow points, but that changed mid to late ’70s. The earlier guns can be modified easily enough.
Like the Makarov, the P9S uses a full length firing pin – the hammer never touches the firing pin except when fired. The full length pin may be why the mainspring can be lighter to provide an excellent DA trigger pull.
This might be the first production gun with truly modern combat sights.
The P9S combines the cocking/decocking/slide lock lever of the Sauer 38H with the takedown of the Mauser HSc. A superb weapon to this day.
He is sorely incorrect, but not knowing a magazine from a clip is indicative of a lack of knowledfe anyway.
*knowledge
owning and having shot one of these for the last 30 years proves the point that Hogue is probably better off buying a Black Powder pistol or a high point because it matches his level of weapon experience.
However, someone must have hit him hard on his noggin because he got the P7 part right.
You can buy buffers at several sites right now.
No slide release? … Use the lever on left side to release slide. Simple enough. (I’m wondering if You really have a P9S … You should know …)
How do you modify a older p9s 1967 unit to feed hollow point?
Dad got one of these in a big sell off our cousin had it’s the 45 model haven’t had a chance to shoot it but the single action pull is amazing
Nice video. Two things though. That barrel looks a bit longer than original. Could it be because of the threading? My barrel don’t stick outside that much.
Second. The barrel itself is used to unlock the bolt head – You don’t have to use a screwdriver. Quite clever
I purchased a mint condition P9S 45 cal and attempted to replace the buffer before firing. I fought for days trying to depress the buffer enough to put the housing back together and finally took it to my local gunsmith. He trimmed one of the sections off from the buffer, which made for an easy installation and said it should be fine. Can you tell me if I’m risking damage to the housing/frame by reducing the buffer length?
Mike
Without seeing your buffer it’s impossible to say for certain, but, I would not shoot it without an original, full-length/size buffer.
Replacment OEM buffers can be found online for under $20, and replacement *should* be easy… here’s a website with detailed instructions:
http://www.mdwguns.com/hkp9s.html
Good luck!
There is a right way and a wrong way to replace the buffer. You will read hundreds of dudes ‘trimming’ the new buffer to make it work. And it seems to work ‘just fine.’ But it is still the WRONG way to do it.
The buffer comes the way it is made, ready to install, with no trimming needed. The old buffers ‘look’ like they have been trimmed on one end (to form a wedge) because they adopt the slant on one end from USE in the gun, doing its job of absorbing recoil. This forces the business end of the buffer to adopt the slant shape and appear to have been trimmed.
Three steps. Here we go …
1. Mount the frame (with the new buffer and buffer parts already in place) in a non-marring vice – To replace the buffer without trimming you will need a good vice with foam or leather lined jaws. I use foam lined jaws. Mount the frame in the vice (slide off obviously) so it can not move, frame facing UP, but leave some room (two to three inches) on the end of the vice jaws behind the end of the frame. You will need that for a wooden dowel (1 inch diameter and long enough to span the vice jaws).
2. Prep the securing screw for one-hand insertion – Take your flat head screw driver BIT (correct size/width) and prepare the edge of the screw driver (with a file) so that the tip of the flat head screw driver will snuggly fit the slot in the screw head. You want the screw to friction fit on the end of your screw driver and not fall off when it is mounted in the cheesehead slot – in the old days we always prepped screw driver tips this way – but this is not taught anymore, not even in gunsmithing ‘schools’. Keep filing and checking until the screw driver sticks in the slot of the screw with good firm contact. This way you can manipulate the screw mounted in the driver bit with one hand as the other one will be busy lining stuff up and holding the buffer assembly in place as it comes under tension – which it will believe me. I prep my screw driver bit (driver) so that I can control it dismounted from the screw driver handle. YOu will only be using the bit with the screw friction fit on the end to get it startd, while you pull tension on the buffer assembly to line up the receiving eshucheon lower and the buffer assembly.
3. Set up buffer assembly tension pull – Next, find a suitable small diameter cord preferably made of kevlar, such as a 2mm cord. You need a piece about 7 feet long if you are working on a bench with your vice at waist height. With the frame blocked off securely (not too tight to damage the grips or dismount the grips) drape the kevlar cord in front of the rear of the buffer assembly (where the assembly takes the hit from the slide – it is a half-moon-shaped ledge) and bring both lines back along the frame toward the end of the vice. Place a wooden dowel under the back part of the frame on top of the vice jaws and drape the cord over this dowel and let the two ends drop to the floor. Tie a knot in the two ends to make a ‘stirrup.’ The tied loop should be about a foot off the floor. Next grab your prepared bit driver with the screw tightly fitted on the driver tip. You will use your left hand to start the screw once the assembly is tensioned and the holes are lined up and held down/in place by your right hand. Take your right FOOT and place it in the stirrup and begin to step down gently to pull tension on the kevlar loop assembly. You will see the buffer assembly begin to compress rearward under this tension, easily enough to line up the holes, and then simply hand tighten the screw in place. Now you can put the driver in the screw driver and tension it a bit more but not too much as these screws are of the profile that they will BREAK if over torqued. So use some blue loctight in the eschucheon hole. We apply loctite IN THE HOLE and not on the threads of the screw…
Laugh all you want but that is how I did mine, and it is how all master-trained smiths do stuff. We figure it out in our head first, and don’t take short cuts or ‘long’ cuts or hee-man cuts. Those methods damage stuff. Worked like a champion. And remember that, ‘A thing takes as long as it takes.’ And if it is worth doing then it is worth doing well. Wenn schonn, denn schonn. That’s how the Germans and the Swiss used to do things.
Afterthoughs – I first thought about trying what many guys do with muscle, a metal rod, or a helper. I mocked this up and thought through it. Not good, if you slip you can injure your hand or damage the gun trying to pull back on the buffer ledge with a metal rod or what not. Failure does not lead to success, it only leads to more failure. This is truth. Success breeds success. Teach your kids this. Mine are both at military academies now.
I am a master trained Swiss watchmaker and for this problem I simply thought, if this was a compression problem in a watch or a clock (with a spring that needed to be compressed to be installed), how would I solve it? I remember taking apart my son’s 1892 winchester and having to think creatively to get the hammer spring back in place – had to invent something simple and elegant. So the wooden dowel and string idea came to mind. You will have to use kevlar string as regular thin cotton string will not take the weight and will snap and p-cord is likely too thick to remain on the ledge during tension.
Anyone that does this will have an easy time, so much so that they will say, “why didn’t I think of that?” Answer, you did not go to (and pay attention in) watchmaking school. That’s why.