I’ve always had a crush on the Bergmann 1910 pistol, and I’ve posted about them enough that people looking to sell them often seem to find my comments. Today, for example, I have a gun shop in Texas – Outlaw Guns – that has one on consignment from a customer. Randy there sent me a few photos, but it’s not something I can afford to buy at the moment. If you’ve been looking for one yourself, here’s a possibility…the seller is asking $1800, although I expect there is probably a bit of wiggle room in that.
You can reach Outlaw Guns at 575-937-3117 (probably not until Tuesday, though), or by email at QUESK9S@aol.com. As always, caveat emptor – I haven’t actually handled this pistol myself, and can’t vouch for any detail about it. But they are elegant looking, aren’t they?
[nggallery id=219]
An elegant classic and nice shooters!
An old beauty. The first auto pistol adopted by the Spanish Army… and the most short-lived: only 3 years. It never served well during the Rif War: too prone to stoppages and breakages of the rear part of the slide. So they decided to replace it with a more strong design: A STRAIGHT BLOWBACK Campogiro!!! (Not so cute, but at least this one was solid and durable, and ate all 9 Largos with no problems)
Always thought the Bergmann was a very attractive piece. It has the look of a target pistol more than a military arm….
I love those grips….ATTENTION GRIP MANUFACTURERS….CHECK THESE OUT, AND THEN SLAP YOURSELVES REPEATEDLY UNTIL YOU BECOME THIS ARTISTIC AGAIN.. 🙂
..and then I want you to do something similar to these smooth walnut ones on my 1927 Hartford Colt.
An old beauty.The Greek Army after the end of the 2nd Balkan War ordered to the Belgian gun manufactured Pieper ( Anciens Etablissements Pieper, Herstal) a mumber of Bergmann-Bayard mod. 1908 pistols in 9mm Bayard(9X23). Unfortunately the German invasion in Belgium canceled the order and the guns never delivered.
Looking at video, came over to same realization – weight forward helps stability. This design should be revived, in some form, most likely in 9mm Luger. It ends up little longer than today’s common layout, but so what.
One in 9×19 would be practical, but what I would really love is one in .45 ACP – like the samples submitted to the 1907 US pistol trials. *drool*
I wonder if there is an ‘official’ owner of original documentation. If it can be tracked in some legal way and obtained. There is always a shortcut solution (measure an copy), but I do not see it as imminently gainful.
It certainly has the layout of a rapid fire target pistol. I’ve never handled a Bergman, but I bet that with good sights it would be a pleasure to shoot.
I wonder whether Emilio Ghisoni ever produced a centre fire semi auto in this layout – like he did with an early Mateba revolver?
I became once aroused with idea of opposite kind: chamber behind wrist. That would help stability too. The problem of course is, how to arrange magazine (unless, it is in horizontal orientation). Crazy thought…. and I stopped trying for awhile.
As far as I can tell Ghisoni never made a center-fire semi auto, but he did do a .22lr- http://matebafan.com/mt1.html
and it’s not a semi-auto, but… http://matebafan.com/mtr8.html
Hi Nick,
It was the Mateba 8 I had in mind when I wondered whether Ghisoni had ever tried to produce a semi auto with that kind of Bergmann style layout.
Interestingly, I have seen a photo of a service style centre fire semi auto by Ghisoni.
Whether it was the only one made, or whether there was a small batch of them, I don’t know.
In true Ghisoni style, it does things that no one else has attempted (perhaps it’s something to do with the Italian love of wild funghi) for example the breech end of the barrel rises up to give a clearer path for extraction and ejection, then drops down to give a more direct path for feeding the next round.
here’s a link to the US patent http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=5425300A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19950620&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
I would have loved to meet Ghisoni, but I only re discovered his designs about the time of his death.
There’s a link to the photo of the up and down breech Mteba (it’s somewhere on the Matebafan site) and some more comments about Italian pistols in the comments to the Lercker machinepistol
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/lercker-machine-pistol/
wasn’t this pistol used in the opening scenes (Bar shootout) of “Big Jake” (1971) by Patrick Wayne???
Broz
That was a P.38 doctored to look like a Bergmann 1896 and was referred to as a Bergmann 1911.
Yes, it IS a very nice gun, Though i like the c96 just a little more…
I’d love to buy it, but mind-bogglingly, it’s a banned “assault weapon” in CA.
o´dear what a confution
spain broght 3200 bergmann-bayard model 1908 they were used by GuardaCcivil op to late 50ies
Greese used models 1908, 1910 and model 1912.
The germans used model 1910 and 1912, some with holster stock
The danes brought 4840 model 1910 pistols in Belgiom, from 1921 to 1935 2/3 , was converted to model 1910/21, from1922 to 1925,this mmodel 1910/21, was produced by the danes.
Any other Bergmann questions?
petermandrasmussen@mail.dk
Ohhh…. Bergmann.
here is the Movie prop: “Bergmann 1911″http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:Vlcsnap-2010-12-02-10h33m25s208.jpg
Here are some detail pictures, including internals. http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10058332/guns-for-sale-curios-relics/pistol-curios-relics/bergmann-mars-prewwi-automatic-matching-non-import-with-holster.scarce-early-gun
Thanks for the link Denny, details photos reveals it’s disconnecting mechanism
is of “Escaping” type. That the trigger and hammer connection is unengaged once
with each trigger release. This prevents hammer follow which might cause auto
firing, but not prevents a battery off discharge. Very important lack for a
locked breech handgun using powerfull round. Mauser C96 of even former design
has positive kind of disconnector preventing hammer release until the breechbolt
being completely locked.
Hi,
I owned once a lot of these guns – both belgian and danish made. They were beatifully made and really intresting pieces. Well incase – still got some accesoiry left – original – which in this case are really hard to find – like original lanyard cord, loading clip and cleaning rod – addition to this I got holster and extra mag left – incase somebody is intrested in….
@michael, i keep wondering , can you explain what the Californian idea is to make it a forbidden assault weapon? I even think until this year may it was free to own in Belgium….
It’s a semiauto with the magazine forward of the grip. In an effort to target things like Tec-9s, California declared that to be an “assault pistol”. Caught up a fair number of Olympic style pistols too, I believe.
I would be interested in your accessories
Hi
Please take contact my e-mail SVaaka@yahoo.com