The Laugo Alien is a pistol developed recently, and only introduced in 2018. Its lead designer was Ján Lučansky, who was also heavy involved in the CZ Scorpion carbine/SMG. The Alien is a significantly different take on modern handgun design than what we are used to seeing. It uses a fixed barrel, gas delay system (similar to the H&K P7). It has an extremely low bore axis, excelled single-action hammer-fired trigger system, and its clever slide designs puts the sights (either iron or electro-optical) on a fixed top strap that does not move during cycling.
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Right now these guns are offered for $5,000+. Is there a target price below a Korriphila in the future?
I am of course immediately reminded of the Hudson-9. I hope these folks fair better in the business.
I joked that presenting a new gun on FORGOTTEN Weapons was a bad omen and it sadly turned out to be true. I hope Laugo has the ducks in a better row than Hudson. So as not to stumble over subcontractor and QC problems and missing payments all the shit that came together to make Hudson a failed endeavor.
There was also hmg stg that was presented here long ago… maybe its really a bad omen for up and coming company to be featured here
That the gas piston can keep the slide closed is wrong, because the diameter of this piston is smaller then the diameter of the bore. One must think of the pistols action like two pistons working against each other in one cylinder. The first piston in the cartridge case that is pushed backwards against the slide by the gas pressure in the bore, tying to open the slide. The second piston in the pistons the systems gas-cylinder working to close the slide. Because the head surface arear of the piston in smaller then the cartridge cases bottom the slide will open but slowly.
If the system wound work by keeping the slide closed the piston had to have a head area above 9mm to be stronger. And even if this were the case, there would be no force left that could open the slide after the bullet has left the muzzle. Because as soon the the pressure in the barrel drops, it will drop in both, the bore (the gas in the bore tries to open) and in the piston-system (the gas here tries to close). Do to fluid mechanics the piston-system will keep the gas a millisecond longer. And recoil can’t be used either after the bullet has already left the muzzle. And some kind of inertia could not be saved in the slide, because if its kept shut by the piston it could not memorize another force according to the law of the superposition principle.
New high speed footage of the HK P7 shows that the slide will start to open as soon as the bullet enters the barrels free bore and is slowed down after passing the gas port of the piston-system. There pictures were published in the German book “Verschlusssysteme von Feuerwaffen Ergänzungsband 1” by Peter Dannecker.
True… All this kind of “Gas ram” systems work to slow the slide recoiling speed… Not to keep the back of chamber tigthly closed until the bullet leaving the barrel…
This is neat, but Smith & Wesson built the same basic architecture in their Model of 1913 pistol—to wit, the fixed barrel onto which the sights were affixed, and a demi-slide that is manipulated from the side. That said, the removable top-strap is cool—especially for those that want to run optics and iron sights—and the gas system is cool (I think the S&W was just a simple blowback). Low bore axis is always a good thing, and the transfer pin safety is a great idea. Time will tell if this actually catches on.
Installing of sight to non-moving part reminded me about Margolin automatic pistol.
Note that Model of 1913 pistol is related to early Clément automatic pistols, see
https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Clement/clement.html
Later Clément automatic pistols were more similiar to Browning designing of that time.
How many parts are there in a Laugo compared to a Glock?
It seems pretty complex from a manufacturing point of view.
I share the concern about the number of parts, and that’s probably why a gun like this would never make serious inroads into the law enforcement or military user communities. But as a competition and hobbyist gun, it could be a lot of fun.
Very interesting 🙂
I think I might be downloading that vid, there’s too much good stuff there for just one viewing.
All of the way through, I was thinking “that’s so simple, why didn’t I think of it fifteen years ago?”
I didn’t and Lučansky did, so kudos (or faint praise) to him.
I’ll continue to point out that it’s a gas buffered blow back rather than a delay
Also, there’s a bit of a red herring on the loose
A low bore angle ONLY reduces the muzzle flip from the actual movement of the bullet and exit of the gas
A low bore axis DOES NOT reduce muzzle flip due to the impact of the slide at the end of its rearward travel, that depends on the grip design and where the centre of mass of the slide is acting in relationship to the grip and the fire’s hand and arm.
The buffer may turn out to do a lot to reduce felt recoil, muzzle flip and wear and tear on the whole gun and any fancy sights on it.
I was looking at the slide and wondering about durability, would it stand up to hard use in the way that say a CZ 75 did?
twenty thousand rounds and more over a few years?
The reassuring thought is, there’s more metal and fewer stress raising cutouts in that slide than in say, the side rails of a Walther P38 and it’s various Beretta spawn.
Low bore axis
Auto incorrect strikes aga
“(…)twenty thousand rounds and more over a few years?(…)”
I do not know, but https://www.laugoarms.com/alien.html claims that Red dots will last much longer on the Alien pistol due to the non-reciprocating upper part of the slide. On most pistols the movement of the slide damages the red dot which results to constant need of replacement. The red dot on Alien pistol will last the same as on the standard SMG or rifle – the way it has been designed to work.
Very exciting. Can’t wait to see it at the range.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7726230B1/en?inventor=Saim+alper+erdem&oq=Saim+alper+erdem
An interesting patent relating sights free from recoiling, dismounting effects on a small caliber target pistol…
To really understand something, “just seeing” is not enough.
All these newfangled inventors are so fond of shouting about the “incomparably excellent characteristics” of their product…
And to really be convinced of this, it would be nice to shoot “face to face”, say, with the Beretta 92 (because it is easy to get and it is quite a target pistol) and Glock (because everyone knows him).
Only this should be done not according to the “IMHO” principle, but with some semblance of a normal experiment.
Let’s say, shoot one by one, with the same cartridges, from the machine.
https://outdoorhub-res.cloudinary.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:low,w_auto,dpr_auto/https://www.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/09/Ransom-1-766×600.jpg
Of course, including online recording of results.
Then it will be possible to talk about “innovative design”.
Until then, all this is empty talk.
PS And it would also be nice to compare the recoil effort at the same time.
Pistols with too “linear” recoil for high enough ammunition, you know, tend to cause wrist problems.
There is not scientific but still interesting slowmo comparison here (Alien, cz shadow 2, stp 1911 9×19) – https://youtu.be/XoIirPtIdxo
Intriguing design and it looks to be very well thought out and manufactured. but with the grip as high as it is is there a issue with the slide bitting the web of your hand?
$5,000 – put me down for a dozen please – laughter. So who can purchase such a gun?
I wish you would address whats going on with ammo in the magazine when the slide goes back. On a picture from the patent and a seemingly very accurate 3d model it looks like the back of the breach part should push the next cartridge down in the mag significantly when it goes back. Most concerning is if this could press the bullet farther down the case with increase in chamber pressure.
Here are pictures showing this:
Alien patent – https://ibb.co/MVvLKDx
Alien 3d – https://ibb.co/M5Y9Lxk
Glock – https://ibb.co/4TWNJZ3
It should be stressed more, that the lower the barrel, the less mag capacity you have. Should’ve shown how much this 17 round mag sticks underneath your hand, its rediculous. Sadly its mostly for some of competitions, when you dont care as much about size of the gun+mag. Probably this layout is not going to be desirable for smaller carry guns.
Very intriguing. Would like to see this action mashed up w/ a Bond Arms/Boberg setup – that would be fancy.
Mr. Luchansky, in Slovak Lučanský, is really Slovak. He was born a he lives in Trenčín.(Trancheen) and the place was called Laugaricio (Laugaritzio) while Roman Empire and its legias were there. That is where Laugo came from. Czechs an Slovaks have both tradition of making guns together during Czechoslovakia. Now we are split to Czechia and Slovakia thanks to Mr. Havel… never mind. Czechoslovak tradition is strong and reminicence of being tiny power in central Europe when we were together… thas something important. But after “victory” of democracy all easteropeans countries had to be fragmented to be better controlled by west occupants and colonizers.
Let me help you out with the last sentence (rest of your writeup is fine):
“But after “victory of democracy” all East European countries had to be fragmented to be better controlled by western overlords.”
—————-
Yes true, and so what. What would you expect in return for that “democracy”?
I give you a hint: call it MONEYCRACY and you will be right on.
They could have been a tiny power… if it wasnt for Soviet occupation, that degraded and impoverished them, just like DDR, Poland and all other eastern block countries
Stanislav, the second half of your commentary (starting from “thanks to Mr. Havel”) is a complete nonsense. Czechoslovakia was split “thanks” to Mr Mečiar (then prime minister of Slovak republic) and Mr Klaus (then PM of Czech republic), Václav Havel was, contrary to your claim, a supporter of the common Czech and Slovak federation (ČSFR). There was no such thing as a “foreign interest” that caused the splitting of Czechoslovakia (neither other former communist-block countries like Yugoslavia), the only real force behind that was sheer dumb blind nationalism. And your last sentence about “west occupants and colonizers” is a complete bulls**t – a traditional whining of East-European neonazi trash.
In the game of “Which part is the ‘firearm’ under U.S. law?”, this one creates more fun.
The grip is modular and replaceable. The slide rides in a steel upper. The sear and hammer are in the replaceable and easily-swapped top strap. The serial-numbered part is the barrel, which is connected to the upper, but probably replaceable.
Compare to certain SIG pistols where only the FCG is the “firearm”, and the AR rifle platform, where some are arguing (logically, and with some success in the courts) that the lower doesn’t meet the definition of a “firearm”. (Of course, neither does the upper, by itself; that’s what makes this game so fun!)
The grip is replaceable, but there’s a part of the frame above the grip which is not, which holds the barrel. This is also where the trigger is located, and has the breachblock sliding inside of it. The barrel is serialized because Europe, but for US purposes, the frame is probably steel upper half of the frame.
The ‘floating slide’ function is similar to the Hammerli 280 – except for the gas piston.
There’s probably a bit of a race going on between the red-dot sight technology and the underlying technology of the pistol–Right now, you get better life out of the sight by subtracting the slide impact, so a design like the Laugo is smart. However, as the technology for the sights improves, the necessity for shock isolation will go away, and conventional designs will likely win out. Eventually.
I suspect that the end-state for pistol sights will be something the same size as maybe an adjustable iron sight that can project a range-corrected dot or other marker inside the sight plane for the shooter. Current red-dot or holographic sights are simply too damn big and bulky, but they do offer advantages.
End state for pistol sights will likely be something entirely holographic that also incorporates some form of gunsight camera recording device, in order to maintain some sort of record of what the shooter was targeting, along with the surrounding incident. How that’s going to work for off-bore activities, I have no idea–But, the idea that you’ll have to have a boresight camera for liability reasons will likely eventually come into play as a standard requirement for self-defense scenarios.
What is commonplace for police almost always eventually trickles down into civilian use and practice; I fully expect that if you’re going to be carrying and using a firearm for self-defense, you’re going to have to also provide some sort of bodycam and boresight record to establish an affirmative defense in court. That’s years, maybe generations off, but look how fast laser sights developed. I remember thinking when I watched the first Terminator movie that a practical laser sight was maybe something I’d see in my lifetime, probably near the end of it. Instead, it took less than a couple of years for the technology to come along, and we were issuing out IR laser sights for use in combat down in line units, and civilian versions were available for everyone.
Boresight cameras will likely be a mandatory thing, by statute, before mid-century. I might be wrong, though.