Korth is a boutique firearms manufacturer in Germany generally known for their very fine and very expensive revolvers. In 2015, the decided to introduce an automatic pistol as well, which they called the PRS. It is a combination of a 1911 frame and a roller-delayed, fixed barrel slide assembly. As one would expect from their revolvers, the fit and finish quality is magnificent…and the price reflects that.
Semiauto pistol
Bergmann No. 3 / 1896 Pistol
Of the three calibers available in the 1896 model Bergmann pistol, the 6.5mm No.3 was the most popular. Approximately 4,000 of these guns were produced, and they found a worldwide following. We have examples below […]
Needlefire
Q&A Video, November 2015
Thanks to the awesome people supporting Forgotten Weapons through Patreon for sending in more questions that I could get to for another month! This month the subjects include: Browning lock vs others in handguns Best […]
Submachine Guns
The Schmeisser MP41: A Hybrid Submachine Gun
Most people think that the MP41 is simply an MP40 in a wooden stock, but this is actually not the case – and unlike the MP40, the MP41 can be accurately called a Schmeisser – […]
Noticed the underside of trigger guard… Badly looks of the die parting lines unmachined traces… Shame of a company of this expensive…
Ian:
Why don’t you do a show on the big German gun that shelled Paris during the First war?
There must be lots of research on it and the gun itself or similar gun must be around somewhere. We don’t need to known about a Korth or any other brand new 1911. We would like to know about the big gun that could hit London from France .
“big German gun that shelled Paris during the First war”
You can see photos here: http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles/Paris_Kanone.html
after war it was examined by French and spawned development of own long-range artillery piece: http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles/TLP_Project.html
Experience collected from Paris Kanone also allowed building of 21 cm Kanone 12 in Eisenbahnlafette: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_cm_K_12_(E)
Germans worked also on special long-range shells:
http://www.reocities.com/Pentagon/2833/wunderwaffen/supergun/arrowshell/arrowshell.html
In Soviet Union, super-long range gun were basically marginal thing, most effort in super-long range capability was into special shells rather than guns – mainly in discharging sabot design, then called “combined” as it consisted of proper shell (“active” shell in then used terminology) and sabot. First examples of such shells were made in 1919. They were made for 356-mm L/52 naval guns (for Izmail-class battle-cruiser). Testing in 1919 showed muzzle velocity 1291 m/s, with small increase in pressure in barrel. Following development led to following achieved parameters in 1924: 1250 m/s, active 203-mm shell 110 kg, maximal range 48,5 km, but low accuracy was detected. Existing rifling was found unsuitable, so it was decided to bore-out from 356 mm to 368 mm and applying different rifling – this was done in 1934. In 1935 new 220/368 mm shell was created, it has following parameters: 262 kg o/a shell, 142 kg active shell, powder charge 255 kg, muzzle velocity 1254-1265 m/s, range 88720 m for gun elevated 50°. Further work concentrated on lightening sabot to increase range. Finally achieved performance (1937) were as follow: sabot 112,1 kg, active shell – 140 kg, HE filler – 7 kg, muzzle velocity 1390 m/s, range 120,5 km.
Shells of such type were tested not only in these naval guns, but also land service 152-mm (6 inch) cannons, with 95 mm active shell.
These work were abandoned in favor of what was called “star-sabot”, in fact meaning rifling in barrel AND on the shell of great depth. It was tested in modified standard guns, namely 76,2 mm AA gun (67/40 mm – diameter in grooves/in lands, muzzle velocity 1200 m/s) and 152 mm cannon Br-2 (162/100 mm, 1100 m/s).
Decision was made to create 380/250 mm using that technology. Development of that was suspended 17 January 1938.
It was caused by fact that NKVD observed: despite all investment done, these works given 0 patterns adopted to service, so it is not hard what will happen…
Source:
http://www.plam.ru/tehnauka/tainy_russkoi_artillerii_poslednii_dovod_carei_i_komissarov_s_illyustracijami/p5.php
Continuation (from same source)
In effect of Great Patriotic War, Red Army captured some German long-range artillery pieces and also designers of these.
As the club of lovers of exotic shells was crushed into 1937-1939, new development was for light but classic (full-caliber) shells. Now focus was on 305-mm СМ-33 guns for PROJECT 82-class battle-cruisers (to keep terminology clear: СМ-33 – gun, СМ-31 – triple-gun tower, СМ-41 – railroad mount for СМ-33 gun). It has 19 m (62,2 calibers) long barrel, AP and HE shells muzzle velocities were 950 m/s range 53 m, and for light (~2 times more, equal 230,5 kg) LONG-RANGE shell muzzle velocity 1300 m/s, range was 127,3 km.
As Stalin-era ended and Khrushchev-reign started, all development of coastal and railroad artillery was halted (1956), naval armament policy was reworked, PROJECT 82 battle-cruisers never finished. Development works become centered on rocket weaponry.
is: “(…)53 m(…)”
should be: “(…)53 km(…)”
I think it is worth hight-lightning that about Paris Kanone:
The guns were also intended to demonstrate to the world the power of German science and technology
in terms of actual damage it was not worth investments done.
Then of course there was the shorter-ranged but genuinely Brobdingnagian 80cm “Schwerer Gustav” railway gun of World War Two;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
https://ww2db.com/weapon.php?q=89
Originally developed to demolish the fortresses of the Maginot Line, it was continued because of the one glaring fault of the Luftwaffe’s TO&E; the lack of any effective heavy bombers comparable to those of the RAF or USAAF.
When the Wehrmacht needed a major “point of resistance” reduced, they had to rely on railway guns ranging from 21cm on up to this monster for the purpose.
When the British or U.S. Armies had the same problem, they called in a couple of wings’ worth of Lancasters, Flying Fortresses, or Liberators.
Air forces composed entirely of heavy bombers are sort of like navies composed entirely of battleships. They aren’t all that versatile, but you really don’t want to be the first one they get mad at.
cheers
eon
“80cm “Schwerer Gustav” railway gun of World War Two;”
Well, on small-medium-big scale it would probably score ridiculous big. Railway gun which can NOT use existing railroad network, which is first reason why railway guns were made (as it allowed super-heavy artillery to be relatively mobile and going relatively fast from transport mode to combat).
While big in terms of overall mass, this weapon system is hardly long-range for its caliber.
Weapon of more-or-less similar mindset to Great War Paris Kanone was Hochdruckpumpe which was even more narrowly specialized(!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-3_cannon
it was 150 mm caliber (so even smaller that Paris Kanone) and was to be, literally, built into place without any means of train or elevation adjustment.
“the lack of any effective heavy bombers comparable to those of the RAF or USAAF.”
Nonetheless, there were guns firing through Pas-de-Calais on both sides:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dover_Strait_coastal_guns,_1940%E2%80%931944
this was probably longest range counter-battery application of any barrel-artillery.
“demolish the fortresses of the Maginot Line”
Karl-Gerät https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t
was much more sane solution to that problem
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that that is something that he probably won’t find at an auction house.
“In 2015, the decided to introduce an automatic pistol as well”
Korth introduced own-designed automatic pistol from 1985:
https://modernfirearms.net/en/handguns/handguns-en/germany-semi-automatic-pistols/korth-eng/
According to Gábor Vass, the chief editor of the Hungarian Kaliber magazine, who tested it, it is really unreliable – at least this one: [https://youtu.be/2FA5de3PzFc?t=1m32s]. Yes, as far as I know, this is an out of box pistol.
By the way: the C.I.P. is not an official gun proof organisation of the EU, it is independent from the EU. For example, Croatia is EU member, but not C.I.P. member. [http://www.cip-bobp.org/membres]
Thank you Ian. That is one fine pistol. The cost is roughly $5,000 so actually less expensive than their revolvers.
The Korth is truly amazing. The finest gun I’ve ever shot, great groups, so incredibly smooth. I shot the 6″ which has the barrel counterweight which can be swapped out with an incredibly expensive and unobtainable suppressor. Recoil is slow and smooth, not nearly as sharp as most .45s. Groups are tight and since the gun is far superior to my skills, I could see a talented pistoleer putting them through the same hole at 20 yds. Really. I had largeish 7-shot honeycomb pattern in and around the center ring two-handed standing. A great shooter would have no problem.
Yes, I shot it. It should have been a collector’s piece, never fired, but I literally could not let such a masterpiece sit in the safe forever. I don’t regret it, not for one moment.
“Yes, I shot it. It should have been a collector’s piece, never fired, but I literally could not let such a masterpiece sit in the safe forever. I don’t regret it, not for one moment.”
This reminded me about Sokolovsky Automaster, see photos here:
http://weaponsman.com/?p=15007
it was designed with target shooting in mind and is also rather expensive due to fact of small quantity produced (estimated: 50 examples)
“roller-delayed”
Such principle was also used in another German low-production automatic pistol, namely Korriphila: https://modernfirearms.net/en/handguns/handguns-en/germany-semi-automatic-pistols/korriphila-eng/
Pistol roller construction looks very similar, nearly a copy of HK9 introduced in 1969. Korriphila with its single roller and delay system lay out should be accepted a development being far superior than that of HK9.
There was recently limited quantity of unique pistols in Marstar brought in from Italy. Also, very well made and very expensive. If there is market for it, why not.
They are still there… starting at mere $2,995.00 CDN.
https://marstar.ca/dynamic/category.jsp?catid=75217
Very nice explanation why this kind of product exists – because it stands out. Low sales quantity is replaced by high cost; makes sense.
But, if we look at someone like H&K, the overall approach is not much different. They are also expensive, at least two times as much as Glock or CZ and significantly more than Beretta. Why they do it in this way? I guess the only answer is – being German.
Thanks to the guy who posted the links to the Paris Gun and other later German Friendly Giant artillery. It was quite interesting to read that by the time they got the bugs out of them they ran out of materials and time , one of Hitler’s main failures…
Paris guns was WWI affair and it was marginally effective in that war in terms of material damage. It was effective on psyche of Parisians though. Even more effective were occasional passes of Zeppelin blimps.
During WWII Germans applied large calibre artillery in battle of Sevastopol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1941%E2%80%9342)
They were effective but cumbersome to move in and make operational. Heavy Gustav had bore of 80cm and weight of 1,350 tons. It was destroyed by owners not to get to hands of enemy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
“Zeppelin blimps”
Such term is incorrect, either you can have Zeppelin or blimp, as blimp is by definition non-rigid airship and that condition is not full-filled by Zeppelins as they posses rigid structure.
http://www.airships.net/dirigible/
You also have to consider the German domestic market. Obtaining a license for a centerfire handgun is a long and expensive process, and generally it’s one to a customer.
In such a market, odds are the customer doesn’t think spending the price of a high-end stereo system for the only pistol he’s ever likely to own is that big a problem.
cheers
eon
There are mainly three kinds of gun owners in Germany:
– Collectors: Can buy roughly as many guns as they want as long as they fit in their collections theme.
– Hunters: Can buy three handguns incl. one .22
– Sport shooters: Can buy about three to ten handguns that are needed to shot different disciplines of their shooting organization
I would almost dare someone to stick a regular 1911 magazine into the gun but I’m afraid of getting indicted for promoting “product sacrilege” or “product heresy.” This gun looks good for shooting, but only on a casual level for rich fat cats. Anyone got a way to make this good for competition or combat without “making it mule stupid?”
Most honorable Cherndog, perhaps you have read what esteemed colleague Ivan Chesnokov says of rich weapons:
IVAN CHESNOKOV !!4AFNigi37A 07/15/10 (Thu) 16:05 No. 6734268
>>6733861
MAIN POINT OF SELLING BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN PISTOL IS EXTREME PRICE OF WEAPON AND CARTRIDGE.
BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN IS WEAPON OF MAN WHO WEARS EXPENSIVE ITALIAN FASCIST SUIT OF HAND SEWING, DRIVE HUGE EXPENSIVE NAZI MERCEDES OF A.M.G. SHOP, SAIL ON MASSIVE YACHT TO GREEK ISLANDS. I THINK YOU GET PICTURE. BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN IS WEAPON THAT SAYS IS NO SUCH THING AS CONCERN OF MONEY.
FOR MAN WITHOUT EXPENSIVE SUIT, BIG BLACK MERCEDES, AND MASSIVE YACHT, BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN IS FOR PRETENDING OF BE RICH LIKE BLACK GANGSTER OF AMERICAN CITY WITH GOLD CHAINS OF LOW QUALITY AND JEWELS OF COLORED GLASS. WHEN YOU EXPLAIN USE OF BELGIAN FIVE SEVEN PISTOL IS ONLY FOR SHOOT MAN WITH BULLET VEST WITH CARTRIDGE ILLEGAL TO CIVILIAN, THIS MAN HAS NUCLEAR RAGE. WHOLE IDENTITY OF THIS MAN IS SPENT IN PRETEND PISTOL SHOWS HE IS RICH. IS VERY AMUSE.
FOR REST OF WORLD THERE IS 9 MILLIMETERS OF LUGER WHICH IS SAME WOUND FOR COST LESS.
The 5-7 is generally only used for special military purposes or for guarding the White House. At least that’s what I was told, as each gun costs over 12 hundred bucks (not including shipping fees), making the Five-Seven impractical for civilian use. And true armor piercing ammunition costs hundreds of dollars a box! I could be wrong.
From what I read in time of introduction, the FN 5.7mm ammunition was prohibited precisely because of its armour-piercing capacity. Is it still true today?
Last time I heard, only law enforcement and soldiers will get the purposely designed AP rounds for the Five-Seven (and usually the P90). Everyone else (civilian) gets jacketed hollow point ammunition, which DOES NOT penetrate Kevlar vests very well. The problem is that anti-gun politicians scream about its “terrifying ability to fire one bullet and kill three heavily armored soldiers in a row” that really never happens. Trust me, a Democrat suggested tying the NRA’s president to a chair, having him wear a Kevlar vest, and then having him shot point blank in the chest with a supposed “not AP” round to see if the vest and the guy’s body would be shattered like glass. I do not endorse the NRA, but such a thought experiment goes beyond common sense.
lf noticed, most of rich pistols are in “Delayed Blowback” cathegory. Though very rarely stated, there is much a clever cause for this preference. The slowed down recoiling velocity of breechbolt, effects the powder burning speed and nearly doubles the muzzle velocity… Only richmen know this secret.
No, that cannot be true 🙂
If you read what I wrote in previous feature, you will know that slide is acting in delay. It needs time to pick up speed. When slide starts to move, bullet is out of barrel – and that is the essence of gun safety. The loss of velocity of bullet due to barrel/slide movement is miniscule or none. Believe me, I worked (although shortly, but long enough to know) in the industry and used the slow video to optimise design. Even Ian’s videos show it too.
Feinschmeckers buy fancy guns because they are techno-nuts; exactly the opposite to guy who buys plain-Jane Glock or CZ for that matter.
Dear Denny… Have a look at the date…Are you accompanying me…
April fools!!
Bolt – patent US3566745 https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=3566745A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19710302&DB=&locale=en_EP