If you had to pick one, would you take an early Beretta 38A (with bayonet), or a Finnish kp/31 Suomi? Both have semiauto selectors, although the Beretta’s its easier to use. The Suomi has a higher rate of fire and larger magazine capacity, but is slower to use. Both have roughly equivalent sights and are very controllable. The Suomi is heavier, but the Beretta is longer. So which would you take?
Competition
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I owned a Beretta 1938 A. It was a joy to shoot. The beretta all day long.
Have only fired the KP/31 during my service in the FDF so my answer will be of course the sweet KP/31 Suomi
“(…)fired the KP/31 during my service(…)”
In conjunction with Koskinen magazine (as shown in video) or with box magazine?
Difficult to judge, really. I do have both, so I fortunately don’t have to choose, but that would be a tough one there, if I have to. Which one for combat? That depends. If I’m to be a footsoldier, then Beretta hands down. It’s lighter a kilo to start with. Then the drum might be nice, but it’s another 1 kilo dead weight to carry – there, and BACK. Two kilos if loaded. And loading the Koskinen drum is a NIGHTMARE (if you don’t have a plastic loading tray which I unfortunately do not have). But there is a simple way around it – because every Suomi takes 36rd drums for Carl Gustaf m/45, and that now beats the Beretta hands down, as long as you are motor-transported, that is. The wedge-sectioned 36-rounders are what dreams are made of. Lightning fast and easy to load with the Swedish 36rd stripper clips and loader (after some training I went down to ca. 4 sec per a 36 rd mag), and the best thing: compared to a drum, two sticks hold 72 rds vs one drum of 71, they’re flat, they’re narrow, and they are (almost) featherweight: 3 empty sticks weight equals one empty drum weight. You just stick them from underneath, like Beretta stick. You can tuck them into Italian Samurai assault vest and then you have 7 back + 5 front sticks in the pockets plus one in the gun, 14 x 36 rds = over 500 rds on you, and nothing of it tugs at your belt and suspenders, you can crawl with it, have 5 pockets for frags, and an (almost) flak jacket, protecting your back and chest.
Exchangeable barrels of the Suomi give you nothing, except at cleaning – it is easier to clean a Suomi bbl because you can simply take it away. Bayo in Beretta? Just choose your Suomi wisely: a Swiss Suomi Mp 43/44 by Hispano Suiza takes a standard K31 bayonet, no problemo. Want a lighter, more handy Suomi? Take a Swedish Kpist m/37-39 – only a 250 (vs 320) mm bbl and turned-down receiver, 1 kilo lighter AND it takes the Swedish 36-rounders. Choosing between a Swedish Suomi and the MAB 38A would be a no-brainer: it’s Swedish Suomi hands down. Better magazines, shorter more handy format, same empty weight, but still bulletproof manufacturing with inside receiver honed, so that you don’t have to put oil into it (because at -30 deg Scandinavian winter even gunoil freezes over). Easier sighting, too – three hooded flip-over notches beat the living daylights out of the Beretta’s or Finnish Suomi’s bare and bender-prone tangent sight. So, Suomi vs Beretta for combat, if no periodic limitations: Suomi, but Swedish one, with m/45 36-rd magazines and Italian assault vest. With periodic limitation (WW2 stuff only): then Beretta MAB 38A or better the Tipo 1, the 10-cannelured bull-barrelled predecessor of the sheet-metal shitty pencil-barrelled MP Beretta 38/42. AND a Samurai vest, of course.
Now as to the chances for a legit war bring-back Suomi. First, Finland was an Axis power, not an Allied or neutral country. Yes, we all know why (Winter War), and that they were no Nazis, but still, they supplied Suomis to the III Reich and you see many Waffen-SS legit photos taken by the SS-PK, of SS official photocorrespondents showing Germans with Suomis, the most famous one being taken in Warsaw 1943 and shown in the Stroop Report of supressing the Jewish Ghetto uprising. At one moment there are as many as two Suomis in one frame, wielded by the bodyguards of the SS-Oberfuhrer Jurgen Stroop (interesting SMG photo, btw, as it also shows – in the same frame – two MP 41s and an MP 28). As many as 1500 Suomis were exported to Germany, so there was a chance to find one even in the West (or Greece for that matter, as Stroop and his merry band of pranksters moved from Warsaw to Athens in October 1943). So, Mr Keene – there were after all, the German-stamped Suomis (and these were moreover stamped with SS-Wa#). IMHO German stamps do not matter at all and frankly I do not understand the fascination with them, but well – being Polish as I am, I’m not perticularly keen on neither Jerrys, nor Ivans anyway, so call me biased 🙂
Correction: 36-rd STICK, not drum!
I would take the longer Beretta I think.
Tell you what we do need; a lightweight 7.62mm Nato “Equivalent” machine gun (Chain guns; no crew but heavy) to mount on drones. How about: .375 Ruger (Parent case) 13.5 mm base diameter then like .50 Gi give it rebated 12.2 mm rim, then necked down to 8.8 mm & length 51.2 mm; so .308’ish. Api ignition via rebated rim, in-conjuction with electronically actuated cocking mechanism & gas delay (Gas delay with Api, think equillium’ish in regards operating system) works potentially thus… The bolt carrier is unusual it resembles an expanding trellis.
/\
\/ The upper upside down V being the front, the V being the rear; made up of 4 over lapping plates I.e. / lower & \ is placed on top, same upside down, trellis’ish see; the middle of the top ^ and lower v are pinned together ending at the upper and lower with rollers “The pins rotate within the plates” there is on the top of the upper ^ a further set of two plates arranged in the same way but at a more inclined angle these are pinned beneath said rollers via a washer to equalise the height on one side “Trellis thing” the apex of these plates terminate in a gas piston (Normal type) sits; pinned above/below. Aye. Following roughly? Ok. Sooo… Between the lower trellis sits a rod; now! There is a bolt face, yes; it sits in a similar manner to the piston pinned between front apex of the lower/upper ^ “Think about it, pause.” Running though this bolt face is a firing pin, a rod ending in said pin “forward aye” this rod runs to a similar piece to the rear (Resembles the “bolt face piece” but at the back) Around said rod runs a spring. And this… Be in two or so parts this; I have mentioned the trellis mech before, but it had some potential issues – Which I think I have solved with Api via “Equilibrium’ish’ness.” I think it is quite good in regards it’s stated aim; drone .308; bare with…
Beretta but heck, I’d feel eminently well armed with either… tell ya what, I’ll leave the Beretta 1938 moschetto and Kp/31 to all y’all and opt for the shorter-barrel husqvarna 1939…
I kinda want to Chang my answer to “what Leszek said” I think?
One minor quibble: Germany and the USSR were allied in Dec. 1939 during the Finnish-Soviet “”Winter War.” Finland allied with Germany in 1941.
Didn’t Poland have some Suomi kp/31s prewar?
That’s a fairly difficult choice, but I’d settle for the Beretta.
Although my personal preference in that “generation” of SMGs would be more along the lines of the Erma EMP, the Bergmann MP28/II, or the British copy of the latter, the Lanchester.
All about the same weight as the Beretta, all firing the same 9 x 19mm cartridge, and all having that handy horizontally-mounted magazine that (a) allows you to get lower when under fire and (b) makes fast magazine changes a lot easier.
If you asked me to choose between those three, I’d have to opt for the Erma, which I consider the best of the bunch. As Stephen Hunter once said, it’s pretty much the Mercedes-Benz of SMGs of that era.
And no, I don’t consider the Thompson necessarily superior to any of them. Although if it (1) fired from a closed bolt on single-shot like the FG42 and (2) used a more sensible cartridge for its weight like the .351 WSL (or better yet the .351-based 8 x 35 Ribeyrolle), it would be a strong contender for the title of “first serious attempt at an assault rifle”.
clear ether
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