Luger collecting is one of the most detail-oriented and tricky niches in the whole firearms community – the amount of knowledge that has been documented is staggering, and the level of obsession with Lugers has led to lots of people chasing a small number of rare examples. And what do you get when lots of people are willing to pay a lot for a small number of items only slightly different form common versions of the same thing? Fakes, of course!
Today we are going to use an advertised fake to look at how one might go about assessing a potentially very rare Luger – one of the 10,000B serial range with a GL script toggle.
It does remind of the World Shooting Championships Swiss Lugers resurfacing every now and then… even at renowned auction house or bourse internationale aux armes.
So it is not if fact one of the 10xxxB Lugar’s? What was it originally or is that impossible to know? This is a good video and is a good thing to do.
How many idiots does it take to prove that there is a market for counterfeiting rare items and antiques in general? I am appalled that anyone should try such a thing!
It looks that Americans have tendency to over-hype (if that is correct word) Luger designed pistol in general, for which clear reason I don’t see. Can anybody explain?
I am no expert but a cool gun with the designer’s signature or initials on it would be considered a fortune. The Luger is cool by appearance. I pray that nobody desecrated more pistols for antiquities fraud!
That and the fact that they were “the Bad Guys Guns” in two world wars. Many people think the enemy’s weapons are the coolest thing ever…
Princess Leia has one. 😉
Why do people dress in black leather Nazi fetish kit, and spank each other? Because ze haf veys of making you talk. Quite.
When playing with cheap bags of plastic soldiers in the 80’s, everyone wanted to be ze Germans/Nazis. Snot green coloured British troops, were less favorable than diarrhoea green coloured Japs, dark Green Americans were most popular behind Germans, brown russians, and rare French blue ones.
I tended to go with the Russians because I could knock whole swathes over but replace them, and everyone knew it was apt so I won.
It’s right. Which model plane did everyone want? A Stuka. Why?
“Take zis, allied soldier, REEEEEEEEEEE! KABOOM!!!”
Fun times.
Perhaps it’s… Killing people is bad… But killing people is the name of the game I.e. War, so… People opt to be the baddies?
At the start.
As it progresses, smoking a cigar while wielding a Tommy gun looks more attractive, as does constantly attacking the baddies untill they run out of bullets and surrender. Most children, had a basic understanding of WW2 in the 80’s.
“Perhaps it’s… Killing people is bad… But killing people is the name of the game I.e. War, so… People opt to be the baddies?”
Never think that war, no matter how necessary nor how justified, is not a crime. Ask the infantry and ask the dead.
Ernest Hemingway
Aye, your right. Really.
Still, plastic soldiers, computer games these days.
Maybe one day mankind will learn. “It won’t, it will will invent robots to do it, which will then think up yours- This won’t however turn them into hippies; well its unlikely.”
I think these life, death, nature things are vertices, themselves… Hover brothers website. Think it said vertices, it’s this photon turning lark. I think they are onto something, quantum whatever gravity etc, but I think it goes into everything it’s not a clock that can be unlocked, cruelty, kindness.Etc, etc.
Did they sell model Stukas in the former Soviet union circa 1986?
Take it your plastic soldiers were all brown or grey? Or even dark Green post WW2.
“Think it said vertices, it’s this photon turning lark. I think they are onto something, quantum whatever gravity etc, but I think it goes into everything it’s not a clock that can be unlocked, cruelty, kindness.Etc, etc.”
I am quite confuse what you want to do, but if you claim your able to reverse entropy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(arrow_of_time)
then that would have influence on modern shape of physics
Thank you Daweo, most interesting and new “to me” ☺
I put myself out for you really “Russia” as some kids said he’s a shit soldier.
Because Russians were brown.
But I usually carried a knife, a swiss army knife, unlike my peers. And nobody liked the look of the corksrew.
(I was big enough, to pull it off, never corkscrewed anyone)
Because they are dead and I have their weapons.
Can anyone guess what the original Luger was? The serial numbers on the front frame and barrel do not look like anything has been ground off before renumbering, and the las 5 on the frame number looks like it’s been added. Was there a 1004 Luger that somebody messed with? If not, how come the serials look so ‘genuine’?
Beyond that: is there any way of tracing this guns history? Can any of the metals be analysed? I know archaeologists who can identify the probably source of the metal in Bronze Age spears (given a lump of money, a good sample, and excellent preservation, and the students that were doing the actual work not being hungover). So how closely can modern gun metal be identified?
Generally, Parabellums are divided into “Old Model” and “New Model” categories. The old model (OM), introduced in 1900 or so, has a leaf mainspring, dished toggle knobs with knurling only on the front edge, and an anti-bounce lock on the right side of the frame latching into the right toggle knob. OMs also generally have a grip safety, but not always.
The new model (NM) is the 1906-08 type, adopted first by the German Navy (1906) and then the Army (1908). It has a coil mainspring, flat toggle knobs with knurling clear around, and no anti-bounce lock; it wasn’t considered necessary with the stronger coil mainspring. NMs generally don’t have grip safeties.
Variations occur within the two types. Parabellum “carbines”, with wooden forends concealing a separate “helper” recoil spring and long (up to 14″) barrels, were OM series. The 8″ barrel “Lange Pistole 08/13” or “Artillery” Luger is just what its name says, a variant of the NM P.08 Army model introduced in 1913.
Note that in the past, not only have fakers dreamed up everything short of laser-firing Lugers, there were a variety of ‘one-off’ prototypes from DWM, Waffenfabrik Bern in Switzerland, and elsewhere. Like Swiss Parabellums with selective-fire capability.
Probably the best aid to navigating this morass is
https://www.amazon.com/Luger-Book-Encyclopedia-Borchardt-Borchardt-Luger/dp/0853688869
Or the revised edition (much cheaper)
https://www.amazon.com/Luger-John-Walter/dp/0750966270
Either one may not tell you everything there is to know about Lugers (because there are probably still things even the experts haven’t figured out yet), but they will tell you probably more than you ever thought there was to know about them.
cheers
eon
Even as a fake, its estimate is $3,500 to $5,500.
What would a real Script Luger be valued at?
Far greater. But why should anyone fake that signature if an auction house gets some inspectors to check the background of each piece? Ian just threw somebody’s counterfeit antique scheme off track. Any good collector should have some familiarity with source material, so blatantly fake markings would fool only the amateur who simply wants bragging rights about fancy guns… or am I wrong?
Not all rare guns go through auction houses and not every gun seller has a clue as to what to look for. This is why I hate gun buyback programs because cops are collecting WW2 Lugers for a $50 gift card to the Olive Garden.
I recall a Luger carbine with the GL marking. It was hanging on the wall of the RSAF Enfield Pattern Room, supported by a brace of cuphooks. This was about 45 years ago and had been there for some time so I would assume it was genuine. I hope they’ve been taking care of it!
I notice that the “Ejercito Mexicano” Luger was downgraded in the catalogue too.